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Legato Update for Berlin Strings (2024)

boxofsparklers said:
Does that mean rr legato...? Else I don't get it.
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boxofsparklers said:
I think it's a good update. Legatos are almost perfect now for my taste, especially when I lower the legato volume slightly from preset volume.

I don't understand the ostinato legato though? How am I meant to use it?
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It's a 3x RR legato patch with yet another very different playing style, captured slow and fast, in p and f. This library has many redundancies and alternatives so I'm glad the legato isn't holding it back anymore

Berlin Strings - Notes - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk

Berlin Strings is our flagship string library featuring the talents of Berlin's best string players to provide you with an unparalleled assortment of sampled st
orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com

This page is about the Kontakt library so not everything will be the same, but it's the best info we have for the time being
 
Evans said:
Didn't speculation on this legato update begin because of the legato update to Berlin Orchestra?
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The mix available in BO is puled from BS samples, so I'd assume that changes are made to BS first, then they might be propagated to BO. Last version of Berlin Orchestra is from Jan 2023. I don't think it would take a whole year to propagate the changes to Berlin Strings.
 
Evans said:
Didn't speculation on this legato update begin because of the legato update to Berlin Orchestra?
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JohnS said:
The mix available in BO is puled from BS samples, so I'd assume that changes are made to BS first, then they might be propagated to BO. Last version of Berlin Orchestra is from Jan 2023. I don't think it would take a whole year to propagate the changes to Berlin Strings.
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Yes, Berlin Orchestra already got the update before the main strings. As far as taking a full year to make the same changes to the main strings, well...that's pretty normal for major sample developers. OT is not quick. In their defense though the entire woodwinds line was updated at some point last year. That's for the naysayers who claim they never update or fix things.


Berlin Woodwinds bundle arrives on SINE

@OrchestralTools Hi, in Soloist One the Oboe the Portato art have a strange behavior, sounds as bad edited. This was informed before several times. This minor update could have addressed this maybe? Thanks If by "sounds bad" you mean the Portato Short articulation having no release samples...
vi-control.net vi-control.net
 
Casiquire said:
Yes, Berlin Orchestra already got the update before the main strings. As far as taking a full year to make the same changes to the main strings, well...that's pretty normal for major sample developers. OT is not quick. In their defense though the entire woodwinds line was updated at some point last year. That's for the naysayers who claim they never update or fix things.


Berlin Woodwinds bundle arrives on SINE

@OrchestralTools Hi, in Soloist One the Oboe the Portato art have a strange behavior, sounds as bad edited. This was informed before several times. This minor update could have addressed this maybe? Thanks If by "sounds bad" you mean the Portato Short articulation having no release samples...
vi-control.net vi-control.net
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I believe the solo and ensemble strings of the Berlin Orchestra have just one type of legato. The Berlin Strings, in addition to the slurred legato type, has the fast (run), and portamento. And Berlin Strings first violins have a fingered legato, and both first violins and cellos have the updated ostinato legato.

I can definitely tell a positive difference with this update.
 
CatComposer said:
Yes, I read much of that thread before which did make me apprehensive about buying BS.
However, now that there is this wonderful legato update, it's very encouraging to see that OT is still improving its products.

And so the question remains: Is more work needed?
Is this library finished, or will there be further updates?

From that thread, there were insufficient examples of noise uploaded for me to determine whether the grumpy customer's concerns were well founded.
Also, I didn't find any conclusive response from other owners of the library confirming or denying that noise is a significant problem in the samples.

If there was a significant noise issue in the samples, this might be improved with RX10 noise removal.
I believe Cinesamples did this with their products, which is commendable.

So my question includes the potential noise problems, but is broader.
Are there other weaknesses with the library that can potentially be fixed in a future update.

I thought this forum would be the ideal place for this kind of information to be shared for the benefit of prospective customers, and that as a community we are here to help each other.
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Oh wait, you were serious? Could have sworn your original question was a (great) joke and I laughed out loud. That may be the reason you haven't gotten a serious reply yet. I don't own Berlin Strings but if you intensely care about noises in samples and think they should use RX on them to edit out every squeak and creak that sticks out I can't imagine you'll be happy with OT libraries. I have Metropolis Ark 1, 3, and 5 and I find them to have more noises that stick out in unpleasant ways than most other libraries I have. Can't imagine the Berlin Strings to be wildly different in that regard. If you can't contain your curiosity, I definitely think you should buy a single instrument via Sine first to test it thoroughly yourself. This is too subjective of a thing to let others tell you "no, it's fine, go ahead and buy the full bundle!" imho. But maybe ask others which one is the noisiest and then buy that one to see if you can deal with that or not.
 
FireGS said:
Whats the problem? Genuine curiosity.
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Please listen to the "BS Violas.mp3" file in this thread: (third post)

I'm tired of all the legato issues in SINE

Berlin Strings, Berlin Brass, Berlin Strings Special Bows 1&2, Berlin Orchestra - Created With Berklee... All these libraries have legato issues. And some of them (like BSSB) have been out for months and there are still no updates. I like OT libraries but this is really frustrating.
vi-control.net vi-control.net
 
I still miss the Kontakt version. So much more programmable, faster, and enjoyable to work with.
 
question about instrument loading times (in Cubase):

in my main template I have BS so configured that for each section (VI, VII, VA, CL and BS) I have 3 Sine-tracks, namely legato, longs and shorts (mapped out via expressionMaps and also adding sordino and special bows articulations)
It takes about 20GB of RAM but now takes about 4-5 min to enabling those 15 tracks (Win10, using only external SSDs, Cubase 11)

Does that sound about right?

Transferring a big test file from one SSD to another I am getting about >350MB/s .. enabling the tracks in Cubase and watching taskmanager Cubase loads BS with a rate of between 50-200MB/s through Sine - and of course Cubase freezes for 5 minutes.

I have all external SSDs already excluded from Win Defender.

Anything I can optimize in Cubase/Sine?

Thanks for any pointers
 
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AEF said:
I still miss the Kontakt version. So much more programmable, faster, and enjoyable to work with.
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Curious in what way?

Capsule didn't really have too many crazy custom settings for legato that SINE doesn't AFAIK.

I think everything that Capsule did, SINE can do with Polymaps? What is SINE missing? (Aside from some library-specific features)
 
Getsumen said:
Curious in what way?

Capsule didn't really have too many crazy custom settings for legato that SINE doesn't AFAIK.

I think everything that Capsule did, SINE can do with Polymaps? What is SINE missing? (Aside from some library-specific features)
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Capsule firstly had significantly more options for CC control, speed based and velocity based articulation switching, crossfading for vibrato. You could crossfade a sul tasto patch from special bows into the espressivo patch easily. In SINE, you kind of can but only by adding multiple dummy articulations, and the setup is tedious. Its a far worse implementation.

It loaded far faster. Allowed for purging. And my favorite, it was easy to creates patches containing different companies’ libraries in one patch. BS plus SSS? no problem.

It also crashes constantly, the Legato slider always lags. The store within the plugin is silly and adds nothing. It’s been worse than Kontakt since day 1, and the promise of better legatos only happened after several years by redoing the library scripting itself.
 
CatComposer said:
I don't own Berlin Strings yet, but like the tone.
I was apprehensive of buying them when I heard of their weakness in legato.

But now with this update, it seems they have fixed their biggest weakness.

Can any owners tell me if this is now a near perfect library,
Or are there other significant flaws, such as noises in the samples?
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It's harder to answer that than you'd think because so much of it is personal taste. They have far too much noise...for most fans of VSL or modeled products. For a lot of people, myself included, they have noise where you'd expect to hear noise. There's just the right balance of having a lot of expression and imperfection to sound alive, but without getting in the way or sounding obviously repetitive. But that's my taste. And still, others want their samples to sound even more alive and they might go for Performance Samples, Virharmonic, etc.

It's probably best to try a single instrument (the one you expect to use the absolute most) from OT, a free demo from VSL, and some time with Musio and Composer Cloud just to see where they all stand
 
Casiquire said:
It's harder to answer that than you'd think because so much of it is personal taste. They have far too much noise...for most fans of VSL or modeled products. For a lot of people, myself included, they have noise where you'd expect to hear noise. There's just the right balance of having a lot of expression and imperfection to sound alive, but without getting in the way or sounding obviously repetitive. But that's my taste. And still, others want their samples to sound even more alive and they might go for Performance Samples, Virharmonic, etc.

It's probably best to try a single instrument (the one you expect to use the absolute most) from OT, a free demo from VSL, and some time with Musio and Composer Cloud just to see where they all stand
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Thank you Casiquire for your thoughtful response.
That was very helpful and I will consider your suggestions.
 
Ok, I'll try it again: anyone else noticed that the Basses Sustains accented aren't properly looped? I compared to the last Kontakt version of Berlin Strings and there they are ok. Just want to know: should we report it or is it maybe just something wrong with my installations.
 
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