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Negative Track Delay Database / Spreadsheet

BHF said:
That's an invaluable spreadsheet thanks David, can somebody help me with SCS? Does it shares the same value as SSS or they're left blank because they are not completed ? Thank y'all
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We need a volunteer to submit numbers for it. I have it but I found the legatos hard to work with, so I don’t really use it.
 
David Kudell said:
We need a volunteer to submit numbers for it. I have it but I found the legatos hard to work with, so I don’t really use it.
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Hi David! Just wanted to let you know I spoke about you, your negative track delay YouTube video, and the database in my latest episode at around 12 minutes in. I also posted links to your video and database in the description below the video. Hope you enjoy it! Thanks for this wonderful database :)

 
andrewlefevre said:
There's a VST called Foresight developed by @ToadsworthLP that I'm using for that exact purpose: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ble-solution-to-legato-delay-and-more.129769/
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I've started looking at this midi plugin as well. Very promising. So far I've just tried Cinematic Studio Strings in Logic Pro with all articulations and no track delay. Working very well. The latest iterations can be found here by a contributor (Andrew LeFevre) ... https://github.com/capnspacehook/Foresight
 
David Kudell said:
Added Peteris Vasks Strings so you can go get your templates ready. :)
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Hey David - how direct of a sound can you get with these? {EDIT: you answered this pretty well already.} Fairly big room with lots of reflections, seems like - can you get around the ambience to a degree? (I know that the point of this library is the room and those people, but - you know.) I find that live-sounding rooms cause issues with legatos and crossfading dynamics.

Also, are the shorts fast (very short), and edited consistently? Pizz also?

When you compare it to the new VSL Duality string library would you say that it emotes on its own a bit more?

Last question - is there a good molto vibrato or is that outside of the scope of this library?
 
Does anyone know the negative delay of the Performance Samples free Solo legato Violin & Solo legato Cello instruments ? Initially posted on the Performance Samples Roadmap thread, without knowing. Sorry for that. I couldn’t figure out. Also, do these free instruments blend well with the AI Areia & Nucleus? Thanks.
 
David Kudell said:
Heres a direct link to the database: Link






EDIT: Ok, here's a Google sheet I've created. If you're interested in contributing values for some instruments (and know how to use a Spreadsheet), let me know and I can give you write access.

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Original post: Is there a database anywhere of negative track delay values? Going through my template, figuring it out, it seems like there ought to be a resource for this - a Google doc or something? Or is everyone just figuring it out on their own? I know some of the manufacturers post their delays (Cinematic Studio Series) but others don't. And some libraries have different delays per instrument.

Maybe there's a way we can create a shared doc or something?
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Thank you so much for sharing this!
 
I find it a bit surprising that the Orchestral Tools Woodwinds in the spreadsheet are not the ones that I keep hearing are the best - the legacy Kontakt versions. Do people actually prefer the Revive or Sine versions these days?
 
David Kudell said:
Heres a direct link to the database: Link






EDIT: Ok, here's a Google sheet I've created. If you're interested in contributing values for some instruments (and know how to use a Spreadsheet), let me know and I can give you write access.

----
Original post: Is there a database anywhere of negative track delay values? Going through my template, figuring it out, it seems like there ought to be a resource for this - a Google doc or something? Or is everyone just figuring it out on their own? I know some of the manufacturers post their delays (Cinematic Studio Series) but others don't. And some libraries have different delays per instrument.

Maybe there's a way we can create a shared doc or something?
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What a wonderful tool. As a newbie to this place I'm pretty blown away. Thankyou.
 
I'm currently making my own spreadsheet for this too, none of the libraries i use are in your list actuallly. So what i do is i make a full note in midi. render the track to audio. I use a special zoom script someone made for reaper where i can infinitely zoom in. I set snap to grid off. I place my cursor where the audio starts and i can see the exact number of milliseconds of the offset. this is super precise method. It is going to take a while

I've also made countless custom reaticulate banks for Reaper and they all work really well. I make combined keyswitches for the VSL synchron stuff , you can even keyswitch by velocity so those articulations that have 2 different articulations on one key set by velocity, i can make 2 separate keyswitches for this.
 
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MapleFoxx said:
I place my cursor where the audio starts and i can see the exact number of milliseconds of the offset. this is super precise method.
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Maybe I am not correctly understanding what you intend to do but usually one wants to know the offset until the transient, which should be a bit afterwards. In many cases the difference is probably neglectable, but in some it's definitely not.
 
mussnig said:
Maybe I am not correctly understanding what you intend to do but usually one wants to know the offset until the transient, which should be a bit afterwards. In many cases the difference is probably neglectable, but in some it's definitely not.
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i have played around with that and having it direct on the transient not a good idea for a lot of stuff. sometimes it's half way between where the sample starts and the transient that appears to work best , sometimes exactly at the start of the audio signal. it's kind of listening back to it in context is when you notice if it's correct or not. I play really fast speed run video games and my hearing and sight works in milliseconds. I notice if something is off by a quarter of a second. The game i play we think in frames some times. Like i have an 4 to 8 frame window out of 60 per second to do some moves haha, it's super quick thinking and hearing and i've noticed this has carried over to working on music, I really notice if anything is off and it bugs me right away
 
MapleFoxx said:
i have played around with that and having it direct on the transient not a good idea for a lot of stuff. sometimes it's half way between where the sample starts and the transient that appears to work best , sometimes exactly at the start of the audio signal. it's kind of listening back to it in context is when you notice if it's correct or not. I play really fast speed run video games and my hearing and sight works in milliseconds. I notice if something is off by a quarter of a second. The game i play we think in frames some times. Like i have an 4 to 8 frame window out of 60 per second to do some moves haha, it's super quick thinking and hearing and i've noticed this has carried over to working on music, I really notice if anything is off and it bugs me right away
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Yes, you are right, the "transient" is a simplification and one actually needs to find the point, where the sample is supposed to be on the beat. I think eventually, one needs to employ critical listening to find that point. In any case, it's usually after the start of the audio signal.

Btw: "quarter of a second" is 250 ms, which is actually a lot. Some people here complain about things in the range of 10 ms, which is approx. the threshold where (at least some) musicians start to hear that something is out of sync.
 
There is any info about OT BS main negative delays on Sine? I couldn’t find it besides the Kontakt version and the Symphonic Strings
 
Flyo said:
There is any info about OT BS main negative delays on Sine? I couldn’t find it besides the Kontakt version and the Symphonic Strings
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I haven't finished doing the Sine numbers yet, but for the most part, I have found the only numbers that are different are usually the legato numbers since the legatos are refined for the Sine versions (and are generally more consistent from instrument to instrument). But all the shorts, sustains, etc should be similar between Kontakt vs Sine.
 
David Kudell said:
I haven't finished doing the Sine numbers yet, but for the most part, I have found the only numbers that are different are usually the legato numbers since the legatos are refined for the Sine versions (and are generally more consistent from instrument to instrument). But all the shorts, sustains, etc should be similar between Kontakt vs Sine.
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Thanks David. This isn’t something that maybe already know OT team? they never publicly track delays i guess. I hope they next Sine update could have this as info or even better under a new scripting to rearrange those numbers automatically at same time for example.
 
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