Advice on Spitfire Library

diemcarpe said:

In many people opinion Albion 1 > Colossus. And there is Also Albion Legacy which is the original Albion and still many pros use to this day. Which you can get now for about 140$ with EDU discount? 4 mic positions, each section has legato and FX patches, ensembles only. Cheapest way to Albion epic sound.

I like this AROOF example:

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Good point. I happen to be a Colossus fan, but it is a very niche library with a very distinct almost fake orchestral sound. I like it as an industrial library of sorts. It’s clinical somehow. Albion Legacy would make a whole lot more sense. But -again- compare $140 for essentially an ensemble library with the content of HOOPUS, which isn’t even twice as expensive and comes with the entire orchestra in sections / solo instruments (and a hell of a convolution reverb at this moment).

Apart from that, I agree with your point though.

diemcarpe said:

I like this AROOF example:

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That video definitely has better examples of "when lack of legato is not as critical," partly by selecting theme excerpts that play to the strengths of AROOF, and partly by doing the mockups really well. George also seems to have spent more time with AROOF than I did!

doctoremmet said:

Good point. I happen to be a Colossus fan, but it is a very niche library with a very distinct almost fake orchestral sound. I like it as an industrial library of sorts. It’s clinical somehow. Albion Legacy would make a whole lot more sense. But -again- compare $140 for essentially an ensemble library with the content of HOOPUS, which isn’t even twice as expensive and comes with the entire orchestra in sections / solo instruments (and a hell of a convolution reverb at this moment).

Apart from that, I agree with your point though.

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Yes, HOOPUS it's killer deal with Spaces 2. I bought Spaces 2 in BF and using it everywhere with all libraries since then haha, love it.
HOOPUS is for sure unbeatable with this price with gift, yummy yummy.

Since OP wanted Spitfire so badly I just tried to give him maybe cheapest way for Albion.

Snarf said:

True, Albion Colossos has some legato patches. However, this only applies to broad instrument combinations like 'low strings', 'high strings', 'brass', 'woodwinds' - the only exceptions being horns a3/a8 and piccolos a2/a3. On the whole, I think it's fair to put these libraries in a different category than those which offer per instrument section control, such as BBCSO, EW HO, Nucleus, Musio 1, etc.

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I feel that in some ways you are throwing way too much in this. What’s right for someone starting out, the amount of complexity they can actually handle well, will be limited, and so being concerned about the detailed legato, the proper assignment of parts, and such may not be the most pressing concern, or even a pressing concern at all. And many professionals have said that legato really just isn’t that important, a view I tend to agree with at least to a point.

What remains true in all the discussion here is that OP needs to figure out what they want to do. They may not know or be able to articulate it well. That’s understandable. There may well be no way for them to know without choosing one of the paths and exploring it.

So the first thing I would recommend is that OP listens to the demos and walkthroughs and decide which of the libraries sounds closest to what they aim to do. Albion Colossus for instance is not at all a realistic orchestra sound but has many merits if OP aims at a hyperorchestra effect. AROOF is an excellent ensemble library that allows you to get a good cohesive orchestra effect across most of the dynamic range but at the expense of lacking quite a lot of detail. BBCSO core has detail and what I’d call a solid concert hall aesthetic but it lacks in dynamic layers, which affects the ff-fff side to some extent, but may be even more an issue for moving between dynamic layers in the mid dynamic range.

The point is that none of these libraries is a good or bad choice in itself but also that OP likely won’t know which is best without using them for some time. And especially early on, some less than optimal choices are likely to be made. But the sound of a library is likely to be a better guide even early on than are other technical aspects of library. And you are likely to learn a lot from any library you choose.

Since OP has an edu discount there is no need for any immediate decision since the price will be the same after the SF sale expires.

doctoremmet said:

Especially when bought at Best Service, with an additional $40 off (code: HNY-40-24) and Spaces II for free. I’d go as far as to call that the best deal of 2023 period. And HOOPUS is a great orchestral collection, in a great player. For freakin’ $259?! Best Service even throw in a free gift, so pick Sonuscure’s The Orchestra Light, just for giggles.

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This! You can't really go wrong with EW's HOOPUS. And I love my Spitfire libraries. That is a great price AND Spaces II. Wow!

For HOOPUS: Do I need to download all 944GB to use it? Because I don't have that much space on my system at the moment...

Yes!

No, not really. It is broken down by sections and the solo instruments. You can actually just download what you want. It does work from an external SSD also. It does use more than a 1 TB drive, if I remember correctly. I couldn't get everything one one. I have all my EW libraries over 2 1TB drives. I think the whole thing is just under 1TB, but, of course a 1TB doesn't hold 1TB.

FusionAtom360 said:

For HOOPUS: Do I need to download all 944GB to use it? Because I don't have that much space on my system at the moment...

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Probably worth finding the space (and buying a new SDD...or be ready to in the near future).

Though you should also go listen to HOOPUS and make sure you like the sound. And it might be good to read up on some of its limitation (like for one, it demands tons of space if you want to use it all, and it has tons of articulations, which can be great if you want them, but they are hard to learn initially).

SupremeFist said:

I agree, though for cinematic going to epic I'd say HOOPUS is the no-brainer in this price range.

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Yes, I completely agree. At his level, the smart choice would just be one of the cloud subscriptions, prolly EW.

jbuhler said:

I feel that in some ways you are throwing way too much in this. What’s right for someone starting out, the amount of complexity they can actually handle well, will be limited, and so being concerned about the detailed legato, the proper assignment of parts, and such may not be the most pressing concern, or even a pressing concern at all.

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I'm not sure what you mean here. What am I throwing away? Maybe I wasn't clear or sounded too dismissive of ensemble-based libraries like AROOF and the Albions (which contain other stuff as well). All I was trying to convey is that there are important differences between ensemble-based libraries, and instrument-section-based libraries like BBCSO, EW HO, etc. As you say, a prospective buyer should be aware of these differences before deciding which approach fits them and their musical aims better.

FusionAtom360 said:

Hello,

I'm having a difficult time deciding between three Spitfire orchestral libraries - Abbey Road One, BBCSO Core, and Albion Colossus. If someone who has experience using any of these could help me out that would be great. I want to compose cinematic-style music, and I currently own BBCSO Discover and Originals Orchestra.

I'm limiting my choices to Spitfire libraries as I get an educational discount so they're all $314 but if there are better options please let me know.

Abbey Road One: I like that it has separate trumpets and horns patches, but the lack of legato patches concerned me. How important is that to this type of composition?

BBCSO Core: It has great reviews all around and extremely high quality sound, and each instrument is its own patch, yet there aren't any ensemble patches and it seems more geared towards a classical sound so I'm not sure it would fit my needs.

Albion Colossus: I like the epic sound to it but as many reviews have mentioned it does get a bit synthetic-sounding with the extra effects and the guitar is not great.


Any help with this decision would be appreciated as well as any other suggestions not on this list.

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You might want to look at Albion One or Legacy if you’re aiming to stay within Spitfire.

If you go with Abbey Road One, make sure to pick up the bundle with the Selections. Except for high strings (which may or may not ever come) that will basically give you a nice broad palette of ensemble based sounds with all of the legatos, albeit with a more limited range on the low brass and the Selections. There’s plenty you can accomplish without legato. Examples below. These are older pieces when I was less proficient, so forgive some bad programming here and there. These were all made before I had any Selections.

EW Composer Cloud is only $10 a month with the EDU discount. Definitely go for that on top of whatever else you get, no need to buy HOOPUS right off the bat. Especially as its workflow doesn't gel with everyone (it is significantly better now with the Opus engine instead of the older and clunkier Play engine, but still has its quirks). HOOPUS deals are always coming up, so if you decide to eventually buy it, you won't be losing out for waiting.

And buy a 4 TB SSD as soon as possible (around $225), as SSD prices are already increasing and will likely continue to do so, due to the wholesale price of NAND chips rising:


That will keep you going for while. With SSD prices as they are right now, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 4 TB, you'll eventually need that space anyways, and likely even more. And 4 TB drives are currently the "sweet spot" for price per TB. You'll pay more per TB with a 2 TB or an 8 TB SSD.

Snarf said:

I'm not sure what you mean here. What am I throwing away? Maybe I wasn't clear or sounded too dismissive of ensemble-based libraries like AROOF and the Albions (which contain other stuff as well). All I was trying to convey is that there are important differences between ensemble-based libraries, and instrument-section-based libraries like BBCSO, EW HO, etc. As you say, a prospective buyer should be aware of these differences before deciding which approach fits them and their musical aims better.

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Not throwing away, but throwing far too much to deal with all at once. I agree that OP should consider tradeoffs insofar as they have a grasp of them. But dealing with everything at once isn’t generally a great way to learn. And these three libraries offer different ways of simplifying. (Of course other libraries offer their own ways of simplifying too.) it’s hard to say which will prove most fruitful for OP ( though I doubt Colossus is a great choice, even though I quite like the library; it is as @doctoremmet says rather niche). But either AROOF or BBCSO core could make for a most effective starting point.

If you start thinking about this too much, you won't buy anything. Just to know, there is no perfect library. They all do something well, sometimes really well. They all do other things not so well to really badly. And? Good composers can make even Garritan Personal Orchestra sound good. And all of these sound better than GPO.

BBCSO is the only one in your choice that has individual sections/instruments. Both AROOF and Colossus have combined sections with a few individual instruments. These can be good for quick composing, but if you are taking any kind of orchestration classes, having individual instruments is nice. BBCSO & HOOPUS have this. You have a little more control over the sound with individual instruments. Just to note, HOOPUS is pretty much always on sale, though it varies on the percent.

You have Discover. Do you like the workflow and sound? The workflow with Discover and the Originals will be similar to all the Spitfire libraries you are looking at.

As far as HOOPUS goes, I personally didn't mind Play but OPUS is much more fun. It still can be very complicated if you want to take advantage of all the things the OPUS engine can do. If you have the education discount, getting a month or two to play with it and see if you like it is a great idea.

All this said, I am more of a pop/rock songwriter. My cinematic music has been for short class assignments and contests. The kind of library that works best has varied by assignment. The most useful thing were phrase/evo type libraries for movement and some kind of legato instrument - like violins/cellos/oboes/French horns for a melody. You can get that with HOOPUS.

Soundbed said:

That video definitely has better examples of "when lack of legato is not as critical," partly by selecting theme excerpts that play to the strengths of AROOF, and partly by doing the mockups really well. George also seems to have spent more time with AROOF than I did!

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That WAS impressive, I agree

Soundbed said:

That video definitely has better examples of "when lack of legato is not as critical,"

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Yeah, it's a bit unfair though, because no matter how good your work is, this medley is something nobody can pull of very easily/ Blakus/ Samy- level of stuff. :D

Henu said:

Yeah, it's a bit unfair though, because no matter how good your work is, this medley is something nobody can pull of very easily/ Blakus/ Samy- level of stuff. :D

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Just send me the midi...I'll see what I can do!

I was talking about @Soundbed 's piece in this case. There's nothing wrong with it, though, as I tried to point out- it's just that everything kind of feels a bit pale after hearing that incredible stunt the soundtrack medley- programmer achieved with his own.

FusionAtom360 said:

For HOOPUS: Do I need to download all 944GB to use it? Because I don't have that much space on my system at the moment...

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If you’re looking for something that is simple to use and covers all the bases (including some sound design patches), and also can fit in a smaller footprint on your disk, you might want to check out Nucleus (or Nucleus lite) when it’s on sale too.

It’s only about 30GB on disk.

But it includes soloists, great sound, classic and modern mixes, a choir, performance patches and it’s consistent and easy to learn.

I would have preferred learning on this instead of EWHO if it had existed when I was starting, because there’s relatively nothing to learn about the tools. No complicated patches to find the best articulation. Super consistent and well edited samples.

Someone is going to say it is geared for modern production and has that crisp, crunchy sound (which it does) but it also has a classic mix and can sound more traditional.




It goes on sale for about $299 or you can start with the Lite version for $99 and upgrade for another $199 on sale later.

Also it was produced with Capellen Music Production, which is also used by Performance Samples, and many, many other sample library developers.

You can apply for 20% off year round Edu too. https://help.audioimperia.com/docs/...ffer-edu-discounts-for-students-and-teachers/

(I have no affiliation with Audio Imperia and don’t own Nucleus, but I do own SOLO and about 8 other Audio Imperia products.)

OP this might also help you to decide. Same demos with all libraries:
BBCSO Core:


Nucleus:


HOOPUS: