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Dorico -> Sibelius?

Pick your poison

  • Dorico forever

    Votes: 35 74.5%
  • Sibelius is cool

    Votes: 12 25.5%

  • Total voters
    47
That's because you're using it wrong!😜 That's one of those "I use to be a Sibelius user and this how you can tell!" The philosophy of Dorico is fiddle with it the least possible and let rules (i.e settings) do the heavy lifting.

You shouldn't be moving the dynamic manually, you adjust it in the properties below. That way it'll stay together no matter what you do later.
1.JPG
Yes, I do know about the beat relative position option for dynamics, but that doesn't move the dynamic up vertically in most cases. In this scenario, it shifts it to the left, but it still doesn't fix the vertical spacing issue. To get rid of the excess vertical space, I still have to move the dynamic up in engrave mode. So this doesn't help at all.
 
Dorico has like FFFFFFFF and pppppppp. :) Overkill.
Dorico has those if you hit the "Show more" button, otherwise it hides them. Here is what it has by default:

1707788817220.png

And, after hitting "Show more":

1707788849523.png

So, I don't know why you would complain about extra dynamics that get shown when you hit a button to request showing more dynamics...
 
So, I don't know why you would complain about extra dynamics that get shown when you hit a button to request showing more dynamics...
1. Not a complaint, I assure you. I'm pointing out why some of us non-Dorico folks are non-Dorico folks.
2. I'm hoping that nobody, using any notation program, uses anything more than FF ever. Maybe FFF once every thirty years. And hopefully nobody will use that FFF marking in a mvmt marled Allegro Aperto.
 
2. I'm hoping that nobody, using any notation program, uses anything more than FF ever. Maybe FFF once every thirty years. And hopefully nobody will use that FFF marking in a mvmt marled Allegro Aperto.
I actually had an orchestral piece on a concert back in 2017 (done in Sibelius) and mine was the only one that went up to fff. The rest went up to fffff or ffffff. It seems to be a modern thing.
 
I actually had an orchestral piece on a concert back in 2017 (done in Sibelius) and mine was the only one that went up to fff. The rest went up to fffff or ffffff. It seems to be a modern thing.
I don't think I've written FFF ever. I recall one piece by a name composer- Lady Macbeth Suite by Shostakovich, that had either 4 or 5 Fs.
 
I've always hoped to write music as a stream, and not as a series of small figures, and finally Dorico fulfilled my desire. The addition of the Key editor completed all I could wish.

In Dorico, notated music is just the representation of this music stream. There is no container - bar, group - to fill with music. The music goes on, and you just have to collect it into groups and bars.

Paolo
Beautiful man! ❤❤❤❤
 
I don't think I've written FFF ever. I recall one piece by a name composer- Lady Macbeth Suite by Shostakovich, that had either 4 or 5 Fs.
In context where I used it, I could have probably written sfz. It was the last note of the piece and a crescendo to fff at the very last second before the cutoff.
 
I think someone should create a Sibelius plugin called “Doricolius” that takes over Sibelius when you launch it, but still shows the Sibelius logo to keep you in calm self-denial.

This is what I did when I bought my first Mac - I installed Windows on it. Worked great, and I suddenly felt like wearing jeans and a turtleneck to work the next day.
 
It feels like Dorico has become the "hip" software now (what Sibelius used to be compared to Finale). I guess I'm in the "old" camp now.

In the end, I work faster in Sibelius, that's really all that matters to me.

Edit: ...and others may work faster in Dorico! YMMV!
 
I think someone should create a Sibelius plugin called “Doricolius” that takes over Sibelius when you launch it,
That is the big problem by a mile: When someone launches Sibelius, it may or may not work. :) It's a huge issue, the Sibelius forum on FB is filled with this problem and people who can't launch it. I have the problem on my laptop and I'm not exactly a noob, I started with Sib 3. Their Avid link is the problem. I appreciate them trying to stop piracy but it's coming with a big cost. If I ever switch to Dorico, this will be the reason why.
 
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Dorico seems needlessly complex at times. I'll give you a weird example (at least it was when Dorico came out): For tempos, Sibelius has a few basic ones like Allegro and Andante to start someone off, I usually type mine etc. Dorico had "Allegro Aperto". Really? How many pieces in the history of mankind have Allegro Aperto as the tempo? I know one- Mozart Violin Concerto 5, first mvmt. The same with dynamics, Sibelius has a few like FF and PP if someone needs to choose one. Dorico has like FFFFFFFF and pppppppp. :) Overkill.

It seems a bit overzealous at times. Sibelius isn't as complex and doesn't need to be. I wouldn't want to do Elliot Carter and Xenakis with Sibelius, but for standard notation it seems laid out with speed in mind.
p dynamic = Shift-D, p ENTER
"Allegro" = Shift-T [type ALL] then down arrow to select, add your q=xxx metronome in the same motion.

Gotta use the popovers not click in menus.
 
2. I'm hoping that nobody, using any notation program, uses anything more than FF ever. Maybe FFF once every thirty years. And hopefully nobody will use that FFF marking in a mvmt marled Allegro Aperto.
Maybe if you're engraving Mozart. But a clarinet, for example, has quite a wide dynamic range, as do percussion, strings for that matter, etc. I personally stretch my dynamics to PPP-FFF all the time - it makes a huge difference in NotePerformer (if we're talking programming). FFFF being reserved for the most extreme hits/endings in certain instruments.
 
That is the big problem by a mile: When someone launches Sibelius, it may or may not work. :) It's a huge issue, the Sibelius forum on FB is filled with this problem and people who can't launch it. I have the problem on my laptop and I'm not exactly a noob, I started with Sib 3. Their Avid link is the problem. I appreciate them trying to stop piracy but it's coming with a big cost. If I ever switch to Dorico, this will be the reason why.
Interesting. Wasn’t aware of this. In that case, forget the plugin. Just right-click the Sibelius desktop shortcut, select Properties, then change the path to the Dorico executable. Problem solved! 😂

But in all seriousness, that does suck. I was a Sibelius user myself for years before switching to Dorico. Shame that they aren’t investing time in fixing an issue like that.
 
Maybe if you're engraving Mozart. But a clarinet, for example, has quite a wide dynamic range, as do percussion, strings for that matter, etc. I personally stretch my dynamics to PPP-FFF all the time - it makes a huge difference in NotePerformer (if we're talking programming). FFFF being reserved for the most extreme hits/endings in certain instruments.
I do orchestrations and arrangements for symphonies. PP-FF. Personal preference of course. When I write FF, I'll leave it to the players to figure out how loud. I played Verdi Requiem last weekend, Dies Irae is FF. If it's loud enough for Verdi, it's loud enough for me. :)
 
That's because you're using it wrong!😜 That's one of those "I use to be a Sibelius user and this how you can tell!" The philosophy of Dorico is fiddle with it the least possible and let rules (i.e settings) do the heavy lifting.

You shouldn't be moving the dynamic manually, you adjust it in the properties below. That way it'll stay together no matter what you do later.
1.JPG
2.JPG

For me Dorico is far superior for everything, it's not perfect and still needs a lot of work. But I used to use pen and paper for writing, Sibelius for engraving and Cubase for playback. Now I just do everything in Dorico!

It's indisputably more composer friendly than all the others that exist. In the way that you can move things around, edit, insert, change time, copy, paste, duplicate to other staves, etc. And most things are right there, either on your right click or in the properties panel...
Where does Dorico allow pen input? On a recent in-depth video livestream, I asked if Dorico developers had planned to add a pen for note input via handwriting recognition. The answer was "No because it takes too long." I guess Notion for iPad and Staffpad did not get that memo. Even Sibelius on the iPad has a rudimentary pen input functionality. I find it much faster to go from my "inner ear to the manuscript". Also, for me, it is more accurate and requires less editing before the engraving process. Not only that having music notation that will determine the sample for a desired articulation saves time with part generation and gets rid of the need to have a different track for each articulation. This is the type of workflow that suits me best.
 
p dynamic = Shift-D, p ENTER
"Allegro" = Shift-T [type ALL] then down arrow to select, add your q=xxx metronome in the same motion.

Gotta use the popovers not click in menus.
Like Sears Poncho wrote: needlessly complex. Most other DAW and score app makers let us simply type in a tempo, with decimals, in an always visible parameter field marked tempo.
 
Most other DAW and score app makers let us simply type in a tempo, with decimals, in an always visible parameter field marked tempo.
Really? I don't see any option like this in Sibelius. I do see an option like this in Dorico. But perhaps I do not understand what you mean.

I would agree that the list of example tempos is too comprehensive, diminishing its utility, but I generally do not use this list.
 
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Really? I don't see any option like this in Sibelius. I do see an option like this in Dorico. But perhaps I do not understand what you mean.
My comment was a response to this suggestion:

"p dynamic = Shift-D, p ENTER
"Allegro" = Shift-T [type ALL] then down arrow to select, add your q=xxx metronome in the same motion.

Gotta use the popovers not click in menus."

And yes, Dorico has a metronome icon, but as far as I can tell you cannot type in your tempo, there are no room for adding decimals, but clicking on the quarter note seems to only make it blue, and up/down arrow doesn't seem to be clickable. If you click or double-click on the tempo default (120) after you clicked on the quarter note, things are still confusing. In Logic, tempo is shown with four decimals, and you can either just type in the value you want, or grab the displayed number and drag up/down. Clicking on "120" and dragging up down doesn't do anything. And in order to find out what I can do with the blue background behind the quarter note and the ↕ symbol, I need to google, I guess. My main problem with Dorico is that it's full of situations like that. I certainly don't feel at home among the RTFM-crowd, I'm all MMR (make manuals redundant).

IMO there are two main types of software companies: those who always try to implement the most user friendly way to perform an action, and those who don't. Even if plan to start to use Dorico actively at some point, that software is the best example I can find as a perfect example of software which hasn't been designed, from day 1, without main focus on making it's functionality self-explanatory/obvious/in your face. It's brilliant in many ways, clearly better than Sibelius and Finale on most areas, and I have bought several updates after the initial version – but every time I have tried to get used to it's logic (or lack thereof) I come across too many functions that could have been implemented in ways that are a lot more self-explanatory than what they came up with.

Regarding the Allegro (etc) list, I don't even know where in Dorico it is – I typed Allegro in the Help field and got "No results found" in return – but let's not forget that these mainly Italian terms popped up long before metronomes existed – the word Allegro was apparently first seen in 1535, while metronomes pretty much was a 19th century phenomenon. Beethoven was one of the first major composer to use one, but that's probably because he was a friend of Mälzel.

It's good that Dorico is better than Sibelius in this area, I hope it catches up in the areas where Sibelius still is best/easiest to use.

My main frustration with both Dorico, Logic and other apps I have tried has been that I most of all want the software I use to be as 'intuitive'/fast/easy to use as my hands:

– If I want to invert a chord, I can do that in a split second on a piano, so I don't want that to need more than a key command in music software.

– If I want to check out how a chord would sound if I change only one of the notes, I'll simply lift my fingers from the piano keyboard and play the altered version. All music software should offer a way to alter one note in a chord with a key command, in a way which will play back the full chord but with the changed note.

– All relevant music software should also IMO have a way to go to the next chord with a key command which plays the full chord (if there is one), not only one of the notes.

I also want music software to offer more stuff than I can do manually. For instance, I hope the apps I use to implement a 'go to next' key command which will not only play the next single note the current track, but play that note along with all other notes on all tracks at the same position. Composing software should have chord related key commands like "spread chord notes" or "collect chord notes", because eg. a Cm9 may sound very different depending on how far the involved notes are from each other. In general I'm more optimistic about Dorico than the competition (in terms of notation and composer friendly features), but that doesn't say much: Sibelius isn't developed properly, Apple doesn't have that kind of focus, and I never really liked Finale.
 
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