Tokyo Scoring Strings: How good is it?
- Thread starter zedmaster
- Start date
crutos1
Dumb hobbyist with too many libraries
The obvious answer would be Cinematic Studio series, but if you're wanting a different answer, maybe the Aaron Venture line? Or 8dio's Intimate Studio series. Really, since TSS is dry, it can be easier to blend with mostly anything.
constaneum
Senior Member
I own both TSS and CSS. I'll say CSS is still my favourite. To be honest, besides performance samples being on par with CSS legato scripting, no one else does it better than those. CSS is still my primary string library...TSS is great for certain context as it has a brighter sound.
constaneum
Senior Member
But I do believe TSS 2.0 may be a contender...let's wait and see. Brass and woodwinds wide, ill say CSB and CSW shall work fine with TSS
Soundbed
Music for TV
I’ve taken longer than that to make a video on TSS! I don’t want to do it an injustice.
ender7
Member
Tokyo Scoring Strings does have a unique sound, but in my experience, when talking about the “japanese” sound, it depends on how you play it. The amount of vibrato, the arrangement and instrumentation has a big impact. I wouldn’t use it to transcribe a romantic symphony, but I absolutely would use it in any modern score. I don’t think it replaces any other library and it’s not replaced by any other library either. I think you know if you want that sound, and if so it really delivers as expected.
For my first string library purchase, I am strongly considering TSS and MSS (and LASS3 to a lesser extent), because all three have superior workflows from what I can tell (look ahead being one example). One question for TSS owners: since it does not have an ostinato function like Audiobro provides, how would one go about creating ostinatos? Do you simply manually go into the piano roll and lay down the notes (or play them, I suppose), or is there some function that assists with this (as with Spitfire, which has a sequencer-like ostinato tool)? I believe I saw on the Audiobro site that their ostinato offering is superior to manually inputting ostinatos yourself, although I am not sure if that is true or if so, why it is true. Any thoughts on that?
Lastly, knowing that this is a TSS thread, I'll still ask -- anyone have both MSS & TSS? If so, how would you compare and contrast, particularly for a first-time strings library purchaser?
Lastly, knowing that this is a TSS thread, I'll still ask -- anyone have both MSS & TSS? If so, how would you compare and contrast, particularly for a first-time strings library purchaser?
Marko Cifer
Active Member
I have both, and honestly, while both have been excellent pick-ups for me, I use both for very different aesthetic goals (also, I use both in conjunction with "sister" libraries - Sonokinetic's Orchestral Divisi Strings for MSS, Audio Imperia's Areia for TSS). So I'm going to write the rest of this post with the assumption as if both of them are equally aesthetically pleasing to you (although I will touch on certain things tone-wise anyways). Also, keep in mind that this is only how I approach and use them - I'm certain I haven't even started to get close to use either of them to their fullest potentials.
MSS, while it's full of content and has advanced features (not to mention allows you to write in Divisi), it needs work to get good results out of it. Nothing you can't learn (I'm still learning myself). I would still be very hesitant to suggest that it's a good fit for someone starting out, unless I'd know that person is willing to put in the work and is ready for the learning curve. Not specifically because of the features, but because of the tone and room characteristics. Those can be somewhat overwhelming (or "boxy" as people like to describe it). And even if you really like the sound out of the box from the examples you've heard - once you start adding instruments on top of each other, it can be a bit much, so I feel that it's good to be ready for some carving to make everything sit nicely together. At least from my perspective, MSS is this box of thick clay, and you have to carve out your desired sound from it. Also, while MSS does have the auto-divisi feature, and while it can be very nice (especially for the shorts), for certain things I'd still recommend to use the A and B sections separately, for better dynamics control.
TSS, while I've had it for a shorter amount of time, feels like it's easier to understand how to use & get it up and running, both feature-wise and tone-wise, so it would make more sense to recommend to a beginner. Not quite as feature-packed, but it's still a very good and comprehensive library. Similar story with the content. But if MSS's sound needs to be carved out, TSS to me feels more like you need to space it out a bit due to its nature and add to the sound of it for it to shine (a good reverb I feel is a must, even though you do have access to some of them in the library itself). One thing I'd point out is that out of the box, the library is configured to have a limited dynamic range (or as @Kent later in the thread points out, a "very naturalistic dynamic range", as this represents the recorded dynamics) - that's something you need to increase via the interface if it'll feel too tight.
Neither of them are "quick and easy gratification" libraries with pre-produced sounds out of the box, but to me, TSS is probably a bit easier (or at least faster) to get to a good state. You do need to somewhat know what you're doing with both. For example, with MSS, usually the first thing people learn is that it's a good idea to turn the built-in reverb and EQ off, and then proceed from there. Both have quite powerful engines which allow you to modify and tweak quite a lot of things, so they're versatile. If you end up preferring to use mic positions over pre-made mixes like I do, both can take up quite a bit of RAM if you're not careful. However, both have ways to help with memory management.
Both also have planned & teased upcoming updates which will, apparently, add, enhance and refine quite a bit, but I'd advise from buying based upon "promises of the future".
Now, if you're looking for a more close-up, intimate feel of the strings, I'd say that both will do just fine (MSS has nice close mics, TSS is studio-focused, both can sound "smaller but full" and thus more focused than a lot of libraries out there). Both can then be shaped pretty well into other sound profiles (people have posted on how to "westernize" TSS so it can be used outside of its comfort zone, as well as tips and tricks on how to tame MSS's tone). Both, if used properly, can be shaped to the point where you can place them rather convincingly into different spaces (or at least, close enough). Both have pretty aggressive-sounding high dynamics that should be used sparingly.
MSS does have an upper edge where its Divisi feature lets you go smaller or larger, while with TSS you'd need to use the transposition trick or layer it with something else if you'd want a larger sound.
Yes - as you say, either programmed in via piano roll or played in via MIDI controller. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of using the various versions of the Auto Rhythm Tool in MSS, but YMMV. Such tools can surely save a lot of time, but I'm just not happy with the results.
Unfortunately, with sample libraries, you won't truly know how well it fits your desired aesthetic and fits your needs until you try it out for yourself. I hope you find at least some value and food for thought out of this comparison. Good luck with your choice!
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I get TSS days before, is really a good library, studio package, consistent quality, an also maleable. It would become even greater with 2.0, I encountered ISW very upfront and communicative, great, super great, if not the best now in terms of costumer care/loyalty discounts.
I wish they continue to release more content, as dynamics preferable with various lengths, something like PJ Pandora, flautando, sultasto, fxs like falls, glissandos, because is a great library to work also as a Studio Pop section, so this could become a staple and make them way ahead of many others options!
And even larger section in other room to make a symphonic version, and use the Scoring smaller as divisi!
You could dream about it.
We know that solo strings are comming also! As maybe Woodwings and Brass?
I wish they continue to release more content, as dynamics preferable with various lengths, something like PJ Pandora, flautando, sultasto, fxs like falls, glissandos, because is a great library to work also as a Studio Pop section, so this could become a staple and make them way ahead of many others options!
And even larger section in other room to make a symphonic version, and use the Scoring smaller as divisi!
You could dream about it.
We know that solo strings are comming also! As maybe Woodwings and Brass?
Wow, thank you so much @Marko Cifer, what a detailed and useful response!
It sounds like what I was hoping for does not exist: a library that sounds good out of the box, is easy to tweak, has useful tools like look ahead (does not require nudging notes or pre-delays), has runs and ostinatos that sound good, auto-divisi, solo/chamber/full orchestra, and does not require a ton of time in general so that I can focus on composing/arranging.
> Unfortunately, with sample libraries, you won't truly know how well it fits your desired aesthetic and fits your needs until you try it out for yourself.
I agree with others who have posted about this -- it is ludicrous that one cannot "try before they buy" these expensive plugins. TSS & MSS are not even close to the most expensive, but still, I don't want to lay down $300 - $500 only to find out that the library doesn't support my workflow or requires too much work or is impossible to get it to sound a certain way. This industry standard approach to selling software is fairly unique to our niche hobby.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply so comprehensively!
jbuhler
Senior Member
This is a very nice comparison of the libraries. Also I would add that learning how to manage these sorts of issues is not the sort of thing anyone who is inexperienced is likely to figure out in a short limited trial period, so for things like this a demo period wouldn’t ultimately be all that helpful. There are aspects of working with sample libraries that simply require you to get the library and work with it for an extended period of time before you can assess whether it’s a good fit for how you work.
(There are other things that trial periods can definitely help with, and very experienced users will be able to assess a library more quickly.)
Well… At least I SW will let you transfer the license to someone else, so you can sell the library if it doesn’t meet your needs.
jbuhler
Senior Member
For most, transfers will be more useful than trial periods I think. Because they give you the time to figure out if a library really works for you. I’ll rarely learn in 30 days of use what I can’t already glean from demos, walkthroughs, and reviews. The downside with reselling is that you’ll rarely get your full money back.
But working with a library for several months on a variety of material, I’ll know what works, what doesn’t, how much work it takes to mold into something acceptable, and just basically what a library’s tradeoffs are.
If I did this full time I could get there faster of course, likely even in a thirty day window. And I know immediately with some libraries that they are a good fit. But other libraries take work and it will take time to assess whether that work is worth it.
I’m not sure I agree with the premise that 30 days is not enough time to evaluate a plugin. I have bought guitar plugins from amplesounds (which are top notch btw), and even though I’ve had them for a year and am still learning all of its features, I knew right away that I loved the sound and it was a library that fit into my workflow. I think the same would be true of any plugin in my case (others may need more time, as you suggest).
I also am quite shocked to have learned when I joined this forum just a month ago, that most plugin developers do not let people resell their licenses. What?!?!
To me, that is a big advantage in TSS favor. I don’t believe you can resell MSS or LASS3.
I also am quite shocked to have learned when I joined this forum just a month ago, that most plugin developers do not let people resell their licenses. What?!?!
To me, that is a big advantage in TSS favor. I don’t believe you can resell MSS or LASS3.
jbuhler
Senior Member
As I said, some libraries you will know immediately. Others, maybe most that are worth learning, take time. If you have 30 days to spend full time learning a library and you already have considerable experience with libraries you can likely test it in a short period. But if you have other things going on in your life, like another job or a deadline to meet, you likely won’t. And it’s especially hard if you are inexperienced and unsure about what you want or maybe even what your workflow really looks like.
In any case if I had a choice between trials and resale, I’d take resale by a long shot. Time limited trials just wouldn‘t be that useful to me.
As I said, 30 days would be plenty for me, but I agree that others might need longer.
And I agree that if forced to choose between the two, resale is preferable to trials, although I think developers should do both.
And I am not a lawyer, but I question the legality of preventing people from selling something that they paid for. I know that some people argue that you are paying for the right to use it, not for the software itself, but surely that’s just a technicality that could be challenged in court (not that anyone would want to waste their time going to court for such matters). But I digress…
And I agree that if forced to choose between the two, resale is preferable to trials, although I think developers should do both.
And I am not a lawyer, but I question the legality of preventing people from selling something that they paid for. I know that some people argue that you are paying for the right to use it, not for the software itself, but surely that’s just a technicality that could be challenged in court (not that anyone would want to waste their time going to court for such matters). But I digress…
jbuhler
Senior Member
Good luck with your lawsuit.
Bee_Abney
How long have I been out?
I suspect that it is much more than a technicality. And any redrawing of the legal picture will have to be mindful of other cases of licensing. Which doesn't mean it couldn't be done, of course. But, for example, many of the composers on this board sell licenses to use their work and would likely not be happy if the law permitted any licensee to resell the license.
But I'm not a lawyer either!
StefanoM
Senior Sound Designer & Composer
From the user's perspective, I understand the issue.
And I would like to be able to try many libraries before purchasing, just like you.
If I reason as a developer, I tell you that I would like the same, especially for indie developers like me.
If it were possible to try the libraries, I'm sure I would have sold even more.
However, it's technically challenging to do something like that with Kontakt, but if there were the will on the part of NI, it could be done, I believe, a sort of time-based licensing system.
The same goes for reselling a used library.
Who guarantees that the user won't keep a copy? Take, for example, libraries for Kontakt Full; they don't have serial numbers.
So you could easily keep the files in the system and "sell" your copy.
It becomes a kind of piracy this way.
To be able to sell a "used" library, with Kontakt the entire licensing system would need to change, also for the Kontakt Full libraries.
For example, through an iLok key. This way, it's much safer to sell a used library, as you transfer the usage license.
( To bring it back on topic, I love Tokyo S Strings )
And I would like to be able to try many libraries before purchasing, just like you.
If I reason as a developer, I tell you that I would like the same, especially for indie developers like me.
If it were possible to try the libraries, I'm sure I would have sold even more.
However, it's technically challenging to do something like that with Kontakt, but if there were the will on the part of NI, it could be done, I believe, a sort of time-based licensing system.
The same goes for reselling a used library.
Who guarantees that the user won't keep a copy? Take, for example, libraries for Kontakt Full; they don't have serial numbers.
So you could easily keep the files in the system and "sell" your copy.
It becomes a kind of piracy this way.
To be able to sell a "used" library, with Kontakt the entire licensing system would need to change, also for the Kontakt Full libraries.
For example, through an iLok key. This way, it's much safer to sell a used library, as you transfer the usage license.
( To bring it back on topic, I love Tokyo S Strings )
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