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Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
There’s a YouTube video of James Corden doing a Carpool Karaoke with Paul McCartney. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen. (Yes, I cried, too.) The cynic in me joked to my wife that as cool as it is, I’ll bet somebody out there gave it a thumbs down. Haha, right? Well, I shouldn’t have checked, because 4,000 people voted thumbs down. 4,000! That’s over one percent! Sure, maybe some people aren’t McCartney or Corden fans, but to actually go the trouble of clicking the Thumbs Down button? Who does that?

VI-Control is sometimes like that. Spitfire might post a “Buy One Get One Free” sale, or maybe about free LABS products, or their new charity thing. Stuff you would think is completely harmless and non-controversial. Posts where 99% of us will think, “Cool. Maybe I’ll get something. Or maybe I won't.”

But ... then there’s that 1% that feels they have to complain about some trivial point and then get into an argument about it, because heaven forbid we don’t all have to hear every thought that pops into their mind. (In fact … what do you want to bet that somebody out there is reading this post right now and is thinking they should post their thoughts that the McCartney video isn’t that great?)

We need to stop that.

Critical posts are allowed on VI-C, of course, so the challenge is how to define which negative posts are helpful and which are not. Here's the thing, though: 99% of the membership here already knows the difference. They know it intuitively. That’s why we’ll often say the forum self-moderates. In fact, I’m hesitant to list a bunch of specific rules, because I don’t want “the 99%” to think they need to change anything, or start worrying about what they post. I want “the 99%” to keep doing exactly what they’re already doing. They make this forum the great place that it is and we don't want to change that.

So the real challenge here is getting the 1% to understand that this post is directed at them. Easier said than done, because unfortunately, people who are being jerks never think they’re the one who is being a jerk. So I’m going to give a few examples which will hopefully help.

1. If people have you on “Ignore,” then we have a problem. No member should have to block or put someone on “Ignore” in order to make their forum visits pleasant.

2. If you’re the kind of person who posts complaints about Spitfire’s marketing, then you’re probably someone who enjoys complaining, rather than just skipping threads that don’t interest you. I’m not saying their campaigns aren’t sometimes annoying, mind you, but it’s only a certain type of person who feels the need to keep saying it.

3. If you think “free speech” includes the right to be annoying, then you misunderstand what “free speech” on VI-Control is about. “Free speech” on VI-Control is limited mostly just to the freedom to be critical (in a fair way) of sample libraries. Free speech in that context is helpful to the community, since we all want to know what hidden shortcomings there might be in a potential purchase. It most certainly does not mean you have the right to trash companies, the forum, other members, or me.

4. Calling someone a “twat” is sometimes okay and sometimes it isn’t. Deal with it. 99% of the membership intuitively knows which is which and has zero problem with a certain “incident” last year. (Note that that post got around a hundred Likes, because most people thought it was appropriate.) If you’re the kind of person who is pissed off about that and sometimes brings up that incident as evidence that the forum is unfair, or biased towards celebrities, then you are in the 1%. I’m tired of seeing that complaint, so bring up that argument again at your own peril.

5. Since I’m on things I get tired of seeing over and over again, if you believe that I make forum decisions based on advertising dollars, then be advised that I consider that to be a personal insult. See this post. Consider this to also be a “post at your own peril” situation, even if you’re posting this accusation on another site.

6. If people see your posts and think, “Ugh. This guy is still arguing the same point over and over,” then that’s a bad thing. I wish I could specify how many is too many, but there is no magic number. Plus, sometimes a debate is healthy and valuable for the rest of us to read. The key is self-awareness. If you’re arguing a point, first think about “Do the other members here really want to read this? Or am I just trying to prove I’m right?” Believe me, it’s much better if you make that determination on your own, rather than moderators making it for you. ;)

7. If you’re writing something negative or controversial, wait a few minutes, or even hours, before posting. Reread, then ask yourself, “Should I really post this?” FWIW, this is advice I often use in my own posts. I wrote the first draft of this post hours ago (while I was still mad that I have to spend my day on this), and believe me, it looked nothing like what you see here now.

8. Spitfire and VSL have specifically asked that we not moderate their threads and that we allow all posts, positive or negative. That’s fine, however there is a difference between fair criticism and someone who is simply being a jerk, so we are going to monitor these threads more closely (I’m now paying someone to do that) and deal with (ban) people who get out of hand. That started a couple weeks ago, someone has already been shown the door, and I think the forum is better because of it.

9. Recognize that the people who run the companies that you may be criticizing are human beings with their own emotions and egos. Even if only 10% of posts are negative, they still hurt. Again, VI-Control is a forum where we do want to be warned about library flaws, and developers do need to accept the fact that not every post will be a rave, but try to understand that the forum isn’t just about you and your needs.

I’m hoping people can recognize themselves in this and help us all out. If not, then our next step will be to ban offenders. (I banned two this morning.) Admittedly, that’s pretty harsh, but I have to do what I have to do. A couple friends advised that I instead do the whole email thing with warnings and explanations, but I know from experience that that just means more arguing. I don’t have time for that, and honestly, it's not worth spending so much of my time on such a small number of troublemakers. So I’m taking a Mister Spock approach - The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
 
A couple friends advised that I instead do the whole email thing with warnings and explanations, but I know from experience that that just means more arguing. I don’t have time for that, and honestly, I’m resenting the fact that I’m already spending so much of my time on such a small number of troublemakers. So I’m taking a Mister Spock approach - The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
A healthy choice as far as I am concerned.
Make your life easier and ‘ban the hell out of them” .( =crude joke)
Seriously: the sooner the 1% gets the point the better off this forum will be, because lately it seems to become like an infection ( sorry to be so crude again) that over trivial things people start to argue.
And instead of becoming informed you need to skip most of a thread and then after reading what is worthwile you need to shrugg off the unpleasentness of how people treated each other.
Don’t we have enough of that in our lives already?

So: good luck with your spock approach and may our and your lives become happier because of it!
 
I always use this analogy, one day of rain can spoil a complete week of good weather. After 11 years and a fair amount of rain here, the overal weather report is that most of the days the sun is shining here :)

Kudos to you Mike!
 
Thanks Mike for investing your time in managing the 1% that are trolling the forum.

Not sure if this is technically possible with the XenForo forum software used on the site, but I like the concept of "down voting"/"disliking" forum posts and then having forum posts that are crossing a certain number of dislikes reduced in font size and opacity.

Also, if a user's posts are overall accumulating too many dislikes, posts would be automatically displayed in reduced font size and opacity as a default.

I have seen that in a few other places and it makes it easy to ignore/fl-over non-productive posts/users and allows the community to actively contribute in moderating the forum.
 
Thanks Mike for making this decision. It is good to "codify" this kind of annoying behavior as being out-of-line.

That "Buy One Get One Free" thread in particular was a disaster. And it was a commercial thread too. I felt bad that the Spitfire team were treated so poorly by some people on this forum who wouldn't shut up. :(
 
That "Buy One Get One Free" thread in particular was a disaster. And it was a commercial thread too. I felt bad that the Spitfire team were treated so poorly by some people on this forum who wouldn't shut up. :(

I am still waiting for my free copy of the Chamber Strings (SCS?) since I already bought the Chamber Strings EVO in the past.....;)

But seriously, people were either being rather naïve or just criticizing for the sake of it.

Anyway, a sensible post by Mike, although the cynic in me doubts whether the 1% recognize themselves in it and/or care about it.

It did make me wonder whether I am already on anybody's ignore list...
 
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Sounds reasonable. :)

1. If people have you on “Ignore,” then we have a problem. No member should have to block or put someone on “Ignore” in order to make their forum visits pleasant.
FWIW on another forum I set everyone on ignore who I find myself intensely disagreeing with once, and use it as a reminder list to not get into arguments with those people, because we're just generally not on the same page and it seems like a waste of time. I do still read their posts, and sometimes even give 'em a "like", but I won't get into arguments with them. In that forum there's an extra button for "show content from ignored users", I don't know how it's implemented here. I'm still new here.

9. Recognize that the people who run the companies that you may be criticizing are human beings with their own emotions and egos. Even if only 10% of posts are negative, they still hurt.
The Reaper Forum seems to have set all member titles to "Human being with feelings". though I haven't read enough there to know if it made a difference.
 
2. If you’re the kind of person who posts complaints about Spitfire’s marketing, then you’re probably someone who enjoys complaining, rather than just skipping threads that don’t interest you.
I'm guilty (although I'm not sure I actually enjoy complaining). Spitfire's marketing annoys the crap out of me and I agree that I need to learn to ignore them. Human nature is a funny thing. Spitfire, for reasons that are inexplicable to me, enjoys a very solid, very vocal fan base on this forum, to the point where that fan base started attacking a member of this forum because he dared to give an honest opinion about one of their products. This attack included members of the company. So, for that reason, it's very difficult for me not to complain about them. I will, however, in the spirit of camaraderie, refrain from further comments about them unless it's an honest opinion about their products that I've personally used. And I will avoid arguing about it. Sometimes it takes a slap in the face to wake me up. Thanks for that.
 
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