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Hanu_H

Hanu_H

Senior Member
Hey guys,

I am starting to study orchestral writing with a teacher. I already have plenty of libraries and my main template is pretty big but we are mostly gonna be working through Zoom, so I would like to have a simpler setup. I would like to have strings, woodwinds and brass that I can just copy tracks around. So consistent KS, etc. Cinematic Studio series is already consistent. With BBC I guess it needs some work but is doable too? I would like to have the basic articulations(legato, shorts, trills, tremolo, pizz), nothing fancy. Problem with Cinematic Studio is that it doesn't have percussion yet. So I was thinking about buying True Strike or Lineage Percussion Core to cover that.

Another thing is the difference between BBC Core and Pro. I would like it to be resource friendly and I am sure I don't need the extra mics for this. I also don't need the leader mics for strings. But I would like to have Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon, use them all the time in my compositions. I do have VSL Woodwinds that I have used for years that could cover that. And with BBC I would have everything recorded in the same space. Is BBC well balanced? I am not afraid of some mixing but what I have heard about Cinematic Studio, their libraries are pretty well balanced and ready to go. Of course I would like to get the cheapest option, but at the same time I am thinking that Cinematic Studio might be the way to go for the future.

So my options would be:

Cheapest
- BBC Core
- Use VSL to the remaining woodwinds

Cinematic Studio
- String, Woodwinds and Brass
- Project Sam percussion

Spitfire
- BBC Pro

If you have any other suggestion, I am all ears. I will start the studies next week, so I did a simple template with LASS, VSL Woodwinds, CineBrass, CinePerc. But for this type of thing, I don't like the sound of the CineSamples so much.
Click to read more...
 
" I would like to have strings, woodwinds and brass that I can just copy tracks around" <- out of the bunch you mentioned, Cinematic studio series are the only libs that covers this best (although with the 1.7 update to the strings, it might need some little work at times, because of changed latency, though this is mostly between strings and brass or solo strings: they are not yet updated).
Overal, they Barely need no adjustments when moving around.

The others require some more work, but doable :)
 
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Personally, I’ve used Noteperformer in Dorico when taking tuition. But my tutors have always wanted to work in notation, not piano roll. So if your tuition is more geared at doing this through a DAW workflow, you’ll want libraries instead.

However, if you’re using notation software, I cannot recommend NotePerformer enough (with or without a Playback Engine plugging some samples in).
 
ModalRealist said:
Personally, I’ve used Noteperformer in Dorico when taking tuition. But my tutors have always wanted to work in notation, not piano roll. So if your tuition is more geared at doing this through a DAW workflow, you’ll want libraries instead.

However, if you’re using notation software, I cannot recommend NotePerformer enough (with or without a Playback Engine plugging some samples in).
Click to expand...
^THIS!

For learning (and writing) purposes, Notation software + NP is very good :)
Good suggestion @ModalRealist!
 
Thanks guys. I will of course use Dorico as well and I am already pretty happy with the included Iconica Sketch sounds. I've been using sample libraries for almost 20 years and with my main template I am a bit worried that I will focus too much on fiddling with all the different libraries, articulations, etc and I want just something simple where I can focus more on the writing and orchestration.

I am not so familiar with Spitfire player and I am a bit surprised that BBC doesn't get any love. It seems that Cinematic Studio series is the way to go with this setup.
 
It's just that the Cinematic Studio libraries fit so well with what you write as requirements in the opening post:

I would like to have strings, woodwinds and brass that I can just copy tracks around. So consistent KS, etc.

Check!

I would like to have the basic articulations(legato, shorts, trills, tremolo, pizz), nothing fancy.

Check!

I would like it to be resource friendly

Check!

I haven't got so much experience using BBCSO so I can't say if it's the same with that library, but one thing I do know is that if you go the Cinematic Studio route, you'll avoid any potential headaches because it's so consistent. You'll be able to focus on learning orchestration and use your energy on that.
 
Henrik B. Jensen said:
It's just that the Cinematic Studio libraries fit so well with what you write as requirements in the opening post:

I would like to have strings, woodwinds and brass that I can just copy tracks around. So consistent KS, etc.

Check!

I would like to have the basic articulations(legato, shorts, trills, tremolo, pizz), nothing fancy.

Check!

I would like it to be resource friendly

Check!

I haven't got so much experience using BBCSO so I can't say if it's the same with that library, but one thing I do know is that if you go the Cinematic Studio route, you'll avoid any potential headaches because it's so consistent. You'll be able to focus on learning orchestration and use your energy on that.
Click to expand...
Yeah. That was my first impression as well when I started thinking about this. Of course it's never gonna be so simple and there's always things I have to change/edit. Another upside is that Cinematic Studio series has all the instruments I want, only need to add the percussion.
 
I have BBC Pro and the whole CSS series. The differences are this.
- BBC is almost a ready to go, while CSS need a lot of preparation. Both in creating the template and in mixing, which is the biggest drawback for CSS for me.
- When working in just one instrument, BCC is faster than CSS. But CSS is faster when you want to double instruments. There are workarounds with the fist thing, but again, it involves a lof of preparation of the template.
- BBC has a more mellow tone and "classical". CSS has a closer sound, a mix between a studio and a concert hall. Also, the sound of CSS is pretty romantic, with a lot of vibrato.
-I would say that CSS is more resources friendly. Of course, BBC Core only have one mic.
-CSS works really great with Note performer, not so much BBC. If you use it with Dorico, it's a great tool.
 
Francisco Lamolda said:
I have BBC Pro and the whole CSS series. The differences are this.
- BBC is almost a ready to go, while CSS need a lot of preparation. Both in creating the template and in mixing, which is the biggest drawback for CSS for me.
- When working in just one instrument, BCC is faster than CSS. But CSS is faster when you want to double instruments. There are workarounds with the fist thing, but again, it involves a lof of preparation of the template.
- BBC has a more mellow tone and "classical". CSS has a closer sound, a mix between a studio and a concert hall. Also, the sound of CSS is pretty romantic, with a lot of vibrato.
-I would say that CSS is more resources friendly. Of course, BBC Core only have one mic.
-CSS works really great with Note performer, not so much BBC. If you use it with Dorico, it's a great tool.
Click to expand...
What do you mean with lot's of preparation? I think CSS looks like it's is pretty straightforward in the patches and setting up. If I need to do some mixing, it's not a big deal, but of course would prefer if the sound would be great from the start.

I am after more natural sound than over the top, but I am not gonna be doing classical music. More Alan Silvestri, John Williams, etc in the 80's/90's than modern soundtrack sound. But I think it's more about the composition/orchestration than the actual sound and I am not too picky about the sound.
 
Hanu_H said:
What do you mean with lot's of preparation? I think CSS looks like it's is pretty straightforward in the patches and setting up. If I need to do some mixing, it's not a big deal, but of course would prefer if the sound would be great from the start.

I am after more natural sound than over the top, but I am not gonna be doing classical music. More Alan Silvestri, John Williams, etc in the 80's/90's than modern soundtrack sound. But I think it's more about the composition/orchestration than the actual sound and I am not too picky about the sound.
Click to expand...
With BBC you just download a template from Spitfire Audio, adjust whatever you want and it sound cohesive. You don't need to much mixing. It will almost automatically sound good out of the box with a bit of reverb. CSS on the other hand requires a bit of EQ (specially the brass), and a good reverb. Also, the woods sounds really close to my taste. Both sections have a thin sound.

Then the way of timing all the articulations of CSS is by using a third party script, nodging manually all the notes, or using one track per articulation. Of course, thi will make it a perfect sound, mainly bc CSS is consistent. However, in the case of BBC, even if it's timing is all over the place, there's less difference between the legatos and shorts and longs of each instrument. You can more or less just use a negative delay in just one track whith all the arts.
 
If you end up with CSS, a lot of people shared tips and tricks (all the way from programming to mixing tips) for CSS users in this thread! I also shared my preferred way of working with the legato delays, which may be helpful, or not haha :)

Cinematic Studio Series Tips & Tricks! :)

As someone who mainly uses Cinematic Studio stuff (CSS, CSB, CSW) and had recently just finished my collection with CSW, I'd love to hear the tips and tricks you've discovered for this series! It could be anything from programming tips, mic mixes, mixing tips, etc. Feel free to share them here :)
vi-control.net vi-control.net
 
I haven't made up my mind yet and of course Spitfire starts a sale. BBC Core would be 291€, which is really cheap for a full orchestra. Few questions about it. How much can you customize the keyswitches in Spitfire Player? Can I unload the articulations that I don't use and can I change order of articulations in the player? Like I said, I would like to have the keyswitches as consistent as possible.
 
Hanu_H said:
I haven't made up my mind yet and of course Spitfire starts a sale. BBC Core would be 291€, which is really cheap for a full orchestra. Few questions about it. How much can you customize the keyswitches in Spitfire Player? Can I unload the articulations that I don't use and can I change order of articulations in the player? Like I said, I would like to have the keyswitches as consistent as possible.
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Yes you can unload them but there's no purging like in Kontakt. You now have the Eco-load function in some Spitfire players but I couldn't find it in my version of BBCSO Core (1.7.0) so I guess it's not there yet.

You can customize the keyswitches pretty much in any way you would like (Keyswitch, CC, Program Change, Velocity, Midi Channel and Speed).

This Spitfire sale isn't one of the mind blowing ones, but yeah 291€ is a very good deal for what it gives (I have gotten buyer's remorse more times than I care to admit when I've compared newly acquired libraries with BBCSO).
 
Hanu_H said:
Thanks guys. I will of course use Dorico as well and I am already pretty happy with the included Iconica Sketch sounds. I've been using sample libraries for almost 20 years and with my main template I am a bit worried that I will focus too much on fiddling with all the different libraries, articulations, etc and I want just something simple where I can focus more on the writing and orchestration.

I am not so familiar with Spitfire player and I am a bit surprised that BBC doesn't get any love. It seems that Cinematic Studio series is the way to go with this setup.
Click to expand...
Depends on what kind of music you are writing. For concert works, BBC has a very good uniform sound across all choirs. Spitfire has greatly improved it since its inception. I use it with NotePerformer NPPE in Dorico and it’s quite good sounding. I augment with Synchron brass and winds in NP as well.
 
I went for it. For the price it's just too good to miss out. From listening the demos and videos, only thing that I am not super thrilled is the upper dynamics of the brass. But I can maybe add some CineBrass or something else if I need it to be more powerful.
 
dcoscina said:
Depends on what kind of music you are writing. For concert works, BBC has a very good uniform sound across all choirs. Spitfire has greatly improved it since its inception. I use it with NotePerformer NPPE in Dorico and it’s quite good sounding. I augment with Synchron brass and winds in NP as well.
Click to expand...
Are you using pro or core with NPPE?
 
You can get the East West Opus orchestra for about $400 right now. Seems to me that would be the best bang for your buck, but then I don't own it and have never used it.
 
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