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Legato String Library Help (Mainly Violins and Celli)

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LiamHKW

New Member
I know I'm oh so special coming here to ask about strings sample libraries, but I want to throw my situation into the ring:

Despite being a college student with times when I'm financially stable enough to buy new libraries being few and far between, I've amassed a decent-sounding virtual orchestra over the years comprised of multiple libraries. I mainly like to write with a romantic-era/John Williams-type- sound, and most of my sample libraries do the job when it comes to achieving relative realism, but the one section where it seems to fall apart is the strings, specifically the legato patches. I have BBCSO Core and the CineStrings complete collection and they sound great with most of their articulations, but CS Core's legato can be kind of weak with not the smoothest transitions between notes (talking ensemble patches, the solo sounds great), and BBCSO sounds a bit better but some of the legato transitions can be a bit inconsistent. This mainly becomes noticeable in the violins and the celli sections.

I know I need to upgrade my sections at some point, but I have to be careful about what I put my money into, especially things like sample libraries. The things I see most people raving about when it comes to smooth legato patches are Performance Samples' Vista and CSS. I am in love with the legato transitions of Vista, but it seems a bit pricey for what it is (and I see Vista II is going to be even more expensive) especially with the lack of 2nd violins, and CSS from what I've heard also sounds great and the student discount is nice, but I haven't heard enough demos to tell if it's right for what I like to write. And with both libraries, I'm worried buying whole new sets of ensembles might be overkill if I'm mainly looking for improvements with the violins and the celli and want to be smart with my purchase so I won't have to end up replacing them again in a short time.

So, for those who have experience with some or all of these libraries, what are your thoughts? Are there maybe some alternatives out there that are either cheaper (without sacrificing quality) or reflect my situation more? Or is CCS/Vista just THAT good and I'll need to just buckle down and get one of them?


TL;DR, I like to write in a John Williams-ey style, and am unsatisfied with the legato articulations of the string libraries I own, CineStrings Core and BBCSO Core. Looking for a library that can either substitute the legato or layer well with them.
Click to read more...
 
LiamHKW said:
I know I'm oh so special coming here to ask about strings sample libraries, but I want to throw my situation into the ring:

Despite being a college student with times when I'm financially stable enough to buy new libraries being few and far between, I've amassed a decent-sounding virtual orchestra over the years comprised of multiple libraries. I mainly like to write with a romantic-era/John Williams-type- sound, and most of my sample libraries do the job when it comes to achieving relative realism, but the one section where it seems to fall apart is the strings, specifically the legato patches. I have BBCSO Core and the CineStrings complete collection and they sound great with most of their articulations, but CS Core's legato can be kind of weak with not the smoothest transitions between notes (talking ensemble patches, the solo sounds great), and BBCSO sounds a bit better but some of the legato transitions can be a bit inconsistent. This mainly becomes noticeable in the violins and the celli sections.

I know I need to upgrade my sections at some point, but I have to be careful about what I put my money into, especially things like sample libraries. The things I see most people raving about when it comes to smooth legato patches are Performance Samples' Vista and CSS. I am in love with the legato transitions of Vista, but it seems a bit pricey for what it is (and I see Vista II is going to be even more expensive) especially with the lack of 2nd violins, and CSS from what I've heard also sounds great and the student discount is nice, but I haven't heard enough demos to tell if it's right for what I like to write. And with both libraries, I'm worried buying whole new sets of ensembles might be overkill if I'm mainly looking for improvements with the violins and the celli and want to be smart with my purchase so I won't have to end up replacing them again in a short time.

So, for those who have experience with some or all of these libraries, what are your thoughts? Are there maybe some alternatives out there that are either cheaper (without sacrificing quality) or reflect my situation more? Or is CCS/Vista just THAT good and I'll need to just buckle down and get one of them?


TL;DR, I like to write in a John Williams-ey style, and am unsatisfied with the legato articulations of the string libraries I own, CineStrings Core and BBCSO Core. Looking for a library that can either substitute the legato or layer well with them.
Click to expand...
CSS.
 
For what it's worth, Gordy Haab uses CSS + CSB, and his career seems to be largely comprised of writing like Williams. I believe much of the Hogwarts Legacy soundtrack was made using the Cinematic Studios series too.
They're very good "primary" libraries, surprisingly flexible, but they still leave room for supplemental ones.
 
Jdiggity1 said:
For what it's worth, Gordy Haab uses CSS + CSB, and his career seems to be largely comprised of writing like Williams. I believe much of the Hogwarts Legacy soundtrack was made using the Cinematic Studios series too.
They're very good "primary" libraries, surprisingly flexible, but they still leave room for supplemental ones.
Click to expand...
I remember as far back as RvD2 Gordy was a huge proponent of writing on paper and getting everything recorded by a real orchestra for the final delivery. Do his scores use any CSS or CSB in the final soundtrack, or is it just what he uses for sketching so that the studios can hear things before recording sessions?
 
LiamHKW said:
times when I'm financially stable enough to buy new libraries being few and far between
Click to expand...
In case you aren't already aware of it – several of these companies offer edu discount, and there are also various campaigns throughout the year. Also, there may be a good discount on Vista II if you buy some inexpensive product from them first (and Performance Samples have downloadable limited trial versions of some of their libraries). With an EDU discount, the new Spitfire Abbey Road series are also worth checking out. Orchestral Tools lets you buy single sections, meaning that you can check out if you like the tone and playability of eg. Berlin String before you buy the whole library. But CSS is maybe the best deal on a limited budget (since it's also a great library) – it's actually kind of surprising that SF, OT, VSL and all the others don't have a similar product for that kind of price.

Spitfire just released Soaring High Strings for $49, which could be useful as well – but in general, string libraries are more useful if they include manual vibrato control (and they last longer if they have at least 4-5 dynamic layers).
 
Honestly BBCSO string legatos are pretty good, what exactly is not working well there? I have quite a lot of string libraries and each one can be a workhorse including strings in BBCSO. Now each one has its quirks, workflow and special sound for sure..!)
 
titokane said:
I remember as far back as RvD2 Gordy was a huge proponent of writing on paper and getting everything recorded by a real orchestra for the final delivery. Do his scores use any CSS or CSB in the final soundtrack, or is it just what he uses for sketching so that the studios can hear things before recording sessions?
Click to expand...
I believe his scores are all recorded, at least for the Star Wars gigs.

By the way @LiamHKW if you can keep an eye out for the sales on Spitfire's Abbey Road Orchestra series (currently only the violins and celli are available), those are imo the libraries to beat, for what you're looking for. They're just not as friendly on the wallet as something like CSS, or Pacific/Vista.
 
Yeah its sounding like Vista II will be pricey. If you want PS strings, Con Moto Violins A are very good legatos, on sale for $89 sometimes
 
Perhaps you can invest in some really good first-chairs (embertone, virharmonik or chris hein) and just layer them on top of BBCSO
 
Hmm, another option could be to look at the a la carte instruments from Orchestral Tools? Like get yourself Violins and Celli from Berlin Symphonic Strings or Berlin Strings based on the sound? Not sure how much that amounts to and if it is worth, but just throwing another option out there. If money is a constraint, might I also suggest looking at Vivid Strings by Pulse Audio. Now on intro sale for 29$. I absolutely love the sound of them, but beware that they are rather small, chamber size sections, and also that the First Violins are the only ones out now, but the Cellos are the next release, scheduled for next month I believe. Listen to the demos for that one or even the VI Control thread here has a lot of fans, me included. I would think layering that with BBCSO or CineStrings can do wonders. CSS on its own is a beast as well. I absolutely love those strings, and if you can get them on sale with an EDU discount, grab them for sure. The 1.7 update has really improved them quite a bit, and they were already incredible. The 1.7 update marcato patches are really amazing, the vibrato control is re-designed and sounds fantastic, the sound is bit brighter and easier to mix in and the Low Latency legatos are really good too. I would recommend riding CC2, the Vibrato control for those to make them sound lively. I use Auto Vib from GrumpyMonkey, who's also here on VI Control. The Auto Vib progressively increases Vibrato for every note, just like a real string player would. I think the vibratro control has really given CSS new life.

TLDR; Look at Orchestral Tools a la carte options. Vivid Strings is an amazing library for 29$ (Violins 1 only) and another 29 for the Cello which will be released next month or this month-end I think. And finally, CSS is an incredible library for sure and if you get a chance to grab it for low, do it. That being said, Vivid Strings can add a lot for you without CSS too.

Vivid Strings does not have a lot of user demos. If you want me to play something and send you the audio, I'll be happy to do so. Same with CSS. I'll be happy to send you some audio if you have anything in particular. All the best :)
 
+1 for Vivid from PulseAudio for $29

The cellos will be out by the end of next month.

Buy them individually at their individual intro prices to get the best value.

pulse.audio

Buy Vivid Strings By Pulse Audio - 5% Back

VIVID STRINGS is a meticulously crafted chamber strings sample library, featuring the rich and intimate sounds of a range of elite performers.
pulse.audio pulse.audio

Money back guarantee.

Multiple vibrato types. Many arts and dynamic layers.

This isn’t JW style but here is an example not on the developer’s site:

Post in thread 'Released: "VIVID STRINGS: Violins 1" Intimate Chamber Strings with Character'
https://vi-control.net/community/th...er-strings-with-character.144880/post-5472064
 
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You always have to ask yourself, what is it you need from a new library that you do not have already? Is it dozens of different strings colors and playing techniques? Then something like the Berlin Strings bundle on sale would be a good buy considering the amount you get. On the cheaper side, there may be some 8dio libraries that help out with just getting more variety. Sometimes, just the ability to have several different options and various flavors helps a lot!

But that is just after the fact of finding the basic bread and butter patches that you have tested and work for you well. And if you are not satisfied with your basic legato, then it is wrong to doubt about spending some money on just legatos of Vista or con Moto. First, you have to consider that legato transitions and sustains already take up the biggest portion of the recording and editing time of a library (depending on the technique used and thoroughness of course), especially when it is as polished and well built as Vista. If that one legato patch is gonna help you reach a level of perfection greater than anything else for many mock-ups, it is wrong to complain about the fact that this is only one articulation. CSS is certainly also a great pick and of course offers a greater variety of articulations. Well, which one is then a matter of taste and nobody can answer that for you. Best thing would be to find someone in your areas who might have those libraries and test them.
 
I would say that precisely the legato on BBCSO Strings is the good part of it. But well, if you only want V1 and Celli, you have a few options:

- Spitfire Abbey Road Orchestra Core: You can purchase V1 and Celli separately. It includes Slurred, Runs and Allegro (for arpeggios in medium velocity). As well as a nice selection (and better than BBCSO imo) of shorts, trems and trills. The Celli legato is right now pretty good. V1 needs an update (which we know is on the way).

- Spitfire Abbey Road Soaring High Strings: a combination of V1 and V2. It will sound fuller, and the legato was made for romantic and expresive lines, with a mix between slurred transitions and portamento. It also has runs, which, atm, are much better than the runs from ARO V1. Its a cheap option, probably the cheapest.

- Orchestral Tools Berlin Symphonic Strings: you can purchase everything a la charte from OT. So you can purchase just what you need and not the entire passague. It seems a nice lib, but not so many ppl uses it (or talk about it) so I don't really know if it will suit your needs. It has 3 legatos (slurred, runs and patter/arpeggios), a good selection of shorts and pizz, tremolos, etc. It receives an update a year or two ago, and I really didn't see any videos of it showcasting the full library updated.

- Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings: Again, you can purchase a la charte just the Longs and Shorts patch. It has more things than the Symphonic, but the sections is smaller (8,6,5,5,4). Maybe the sound is not what you are looking for. It received an update a few days ago which seems nice.
 
Francisco Lamolda said:
- Spitfire Abbey Road Orchestra Core: You can purchase V1 and Celli separately. It includes Slurred, Runs and Allegro (for arpeggios in medium velocity). As well as a nice selection (and better than BBCSO imo) of shorts, trems and trills. The Celli legato is right now pretty good. V1 needs an update (which we know is on the way).

- Spitfire Abbey Road Soaring High Strings: a combination of V1 and V2. It will sound fuller, and the legato was made for romantic and expresive lines, with a mix between slurred transitions and portamento. It also has runs, which, atm, are much better than the runs from ARO V1. Its a cheap option, probably the cheapest.
Click to expand...
It’s worth noting that the first one is 399 (violin 1 only), the other one is 49. Berlin Strings, if you buy the first violin longs/shorts only, is 97.
 
Post some audio samples of your work and then we'll know where the problem lies.

I've heard plenty of people moan about sample libraries and then it turns out that they haven't used the mod wheel or expression or even overlapped the notes to trigger the legato samples in the first place.

This place is very quick to suggest buying new libraries when it may be that you just need more time to learn the tools you already have. If you post audio if your work, you may get some helpful feedback. Of course, it may be that the tools you have are NOT up to the job. But it's impossible to say until we've heard your work!

Personally, I like the BBC SO strings. And to back up my opinion, I've posted some audio of me using it:

All the legato and short strings on this track use BBC SO Pro Mix 2 (except for the very quiet string legato section from 45 seconds to 1:14 which used Spitfire Appasionata layered with Peteris Vask's first chair violin - and the ambient strings at the beginning which are from Olafur Arnalds chamber evolutions).

View attachment henson armistice.mp3
 
SamTheAudiocrat said:
Hmm, another option could be to look at the a la carte instruments from Orchestral Tools? Like get yourself Violins and Celli from Berlin Symphonic Strings or Berlin Strings based on the sound? Not sure how much that amounts to and if it is worth, but just throwing another option out there. If money is a constraint, might I also suggest looking at Vivid Strings by Pulse Audio. Now on intro sale for 29$. I absolutely love the sound of them, but beware that they are rather small, chamber size sections, and also that the First Violins are the only ones out now, but the Cellos are the next release, scheduled for next month I believe. Listen to the demos for that one or even the VI Control thread here has a lot of fans, me included. I would think layering that with BBCSO or CineStrings can do wonders. CSS on its own is a beast as well. I absolutely love those strings, and if you can get them on sale with an EDU discount, grab them for sure. The 1.7 update has really improved them quite a bit, and they were already incredible. The 1.7 update marcato patches are really amazing, the vibrato control is re-designed and sounds fantastic, the sound is bit brighter and easier to mix in and the Low Latency legatos are really good too. I would recommend riding CC2, the Vibrato control for those to make them sound lively. I use Auto Vib from GrumpyMonkey, who's also here on VI Control. The Auto Vib progressively increases Vibrato for every note, just like a real string player would. I think the vibratro control has really given CSS new life.

TLDR; Look at Orchestral Tools a la carte options. Vivid Strings is an amazing library for 29$ (Violins 1 only) and another 29 for the Cello which will be released next month or this month-end I think. And finally, CSS is an incredible library for sure and if you get a chance to grab it for low, do it. That being said, Vivid Strings can add a lot for you without CSS too.

Vivid Strings does not have a lot of user demos. If you want me to play something and send you the audio, I'll be happy to do so. Same with CSS. I'll be happy to send you some audio if you have anything in particular. All the best :)
Click to expand...
Not to hijack the thread, but Sam, if you have time would post an example of CSS with the vibrato plugin active, I’m super curious to hear it since the vibrato control is a crossfade.
 
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