What's new

Newb question. So is VI-Control what Northern Sounds used to be?

Northern Sounds was "the place," but the main advertisers (I believe it was mostly Garritan?) resented the negative posts they were getting, since they were the ones essentially financing the forum. Meanwhile, some of the newer developers (VSL, Spectrasonics, Sonic Implants, East-West, etc.) were getting all sorts of glowing comments, but weren't paying for ads, or paying to have special sub-forums. (Garritan paid extra to have their own special section. I think East West had a section as well, although I'm not sure if they paid for that, or if it was just a nod from NS that they were indeed the heavyweight at the time.)

The forum made some new policies. I can't remember if it was specifically forbidden to criticize Garritan, but it did become forbidden to name certain competing products, if they weren't advertisers. It was pretty bizarre, and people obviously became resentful, since someone might ask, "Which library has the best clarinet?", but you weren't allowed to answer that question with any names besides the very short list of NS advertisers.

As you might expect, people started defying the rule, and started getting banned. Almost everyone, in fact. It started to become comical, to the point where it became a badge of honor, and everyone wanted in on the action.

When I say "comical," that's literally true, as some anonymous person (everyone knows it was Nick Phoenix, but ... we don't really know who it was ;) ) made an actual comic called "Northern Enclosure." I think there were three or four installments, and it was really funny, as it lampooned not only the forum, but many of the members. Nick Batzdorf's avatar (which you can see four posts above mine) comes from that comic. (@Quantum Leap, if you happen to have copies, they would sure be fun to see again ...)

Frederick Russ started VI-Control as a sort of refugee camp, with the philosophy that people should be allowed to speak honestly about products or developers. I would add the words, "even advertisers," but at the time, there were no advertisers here. This was all out of Frederick's pocket. He deserves tremendous credit, not just for doing the work of creating the forum, but running it with a philosophy that's too easy to take for granted if you don't consider how it could have been.

Frederick did eventually start running ads. (And then I shamelessly cranked those up to 11.) His philosophy remained, though, that you could speak honestly about any products, including advertisers. That's key, and it's a big part of why the forum is such a valuable resource. (I've kept that same philosophy, to the point where I'll sometimes have to remind advertisers that running ads does not buy them "protection." Frederick would never have agreed to sell the forum to me if I didn't. Keeping the integrity of the forum was way more important to him than the money, to the point where at the time, a couple other people had made offers, but I was the the one he felt he could trust to keep the forum on the same course. Not to make this about me, but I've always felt honored by that.)

Amusingly, after NS lost most of its membership, the owner (I can't remember who was the owner, who I think was different from the admin - Canadian, though, hence the name "Northern" Sounds) decided he wanted to sell the forum. I never saw the actual amount he wanted, but I'm told it was crazy high, like a million or so. He got no takers. The forum limped along for another fifteen years or so, a shadow of its former self, until it finally went dark a couple years ago.
The newest incarnation of the VI-C starship is with Mike Greene at the helm, and honestly, I think it’s a great fit. He has a unique take on human behavior behind the scenes, he’s professional and I trust his judgment.
 
I remember visiting NS some times in the late 2000's but was so overwhelmed of the world of orchestration and sample libraries that I didn't find much valuable information for my needs at the time.

Funny how things change. :D
 
I remember you contacting me privately saying they made you ban me and you hated doing it. I never held it against you. Glad I recognize you here now, Mike can I ban Brian?…kidding.
I really appreciate that Craig! It really does mean a lot.
I figured you had a giant golden BAN BRIAN button in your studio. Seems a waste. Ya Mike, he should be allowed to push it at least once. I kinda had that coming.:P
Seriously, again I really appreciate it!
 
Ash. :(

It guess it's not totally surprising, because he had obviously escalating mental issues and it sounded like everything was falling apart. But I'm still shaken.

In addition to being a friend - one I only met in person maybe four times, but we talked on the phone quite often, etc. - he was a big contributor to Virtual Instruments magazine when I was running it. "Sampling with King Idiot" was always quirky and interesting.

He was a very bright guy, always full of ideas, and above all just a nice guy. And how old was he, maybe 35?

Very sad.
 
Last edited:
Northern Sounds... I ended up there but I have no idea how. I think it had something to do with GigaStudio support, and especially Garritan Orchestral Strings. It was a brilliant library, way ahead of its time, and not the easiest nut to crack.

At the time he released GPO I thought it was a great opportunity for folks that didn't want to spend thousands, which is what it cost back then. Then came JABB, which was equally cool.

No one expected GPO to compete with GOS, or at least I hope not.

In addition to Principles of Orchestration they had a jazz course authored by Chuck Israels. Both were quite useful, but there is a time for everything, including NS, I suppose.

Gary's biggest problem was missing deadlines, sometimes by years. I'm not suggesting he should have worked faster, things take as long as they take. But the pre-announcements really hurt the business.

Gary was a really good guy as was Tom. I made it a point to catch up with them at AES conventions, and they always made time to chat. Unfortunately Gary had a family issue that pulled him away from the business, and I got the impression that Tom wasn't real happy about that.

Whatever the reason, both of them became a lot less accessible.

I left after I was threatened with a ban for playing guitar on my submission for the Christmas album. It seemed like they changed the rules frequently, not just about contests and group projects, but just running the place.
 
Oh wow, ran across this thread somehow.

Yes NS was the place to be when I first started to get real serious about Orchestral libraries. It was a great place for about 6 months then it just got weird. It started out as an anarchy state then almost over night it became a fascist dictatorship but the dictator never really revealed who they were. Then before you know it boom, you were locked out of your account and many times ousted on trumped up charges of saying things you didn't even say. I got banned and when I did sneak back in and look at my old account's post somebody had gone in and posted a bunch of post in my name that I never posted. All in an effort to make me out to be some soft of forum rabble-rouser. Which I wasn't and couldn't even understand why the "owners" would even do that.

Garritan sent me a copy of JABB and I hated it. Compared to even other Big Band type libraries like QL Brass JABB stunk. I said so and I was pretty much gone from NS. He even called me out at NAMM one year. Really upset that I had spoken negatively about JABB. I kind of looked at him like what's you're problem dude. Actually in some way he was actually quite nice in person. I could tell that I had hurt him. Back then I had no idea what these products meant to people though. Probably wouldn't be as open about my feelings now as I now know people spend a lot of time on stuff and sampling is really quite personal. Back back then I had no clue.

But this place VI-Control was like a haven. NS hated this place. Garritan and Francis aka Bela D media would just openly get hostile. The wars were legendary. I still remember it to this day. It was rough though back then like real rough. Guys around here attacking Francis as he was literally a cripple after some major accident. I think he died hating VI-Control. All the bad boys from NS descended upon this place and people could say whatever they wanted. We learned a lot though and I owe a lot of my improvement in using samples to this place.

Over the next year VI got real chill really. We fought now and again but nothing like the flame wars associated with NS and then spilling over into the early days of VI control. There was some real hate going on and if guys were in a room I'm sure fist fights would have broken out. But also since people were allowed to vent they usually got it out of them and moved on.

But, this place always had something that NS didn't have. There was a sense that nobody was really pulling the strings. This forum didn't slant in any direction and we really do have Frederick to thank for that. Some of the biggest developers today got their start on this forum. Thonex aka Andrew K. of Audio Bro, Troels F of 8Dio, Alex W. of Cinematic Studios, Spitfire Audio made their first announcement of Chamber Strings here on this forum asking if people would be interested. The list goes on. These kinds of developers wouldn't have stood a chance on NS. The powers that be there weren't interested in fostering new talent. But this place let it flourish. And a lot of new discoveries were made.

Funny I still consider Vi-Control the new place but at this point it has survived a lot better than NS which I'm sure was pretty dead at least to me around 2005. Vi-Control has only gotten stronger.
 
Guys around here attacking Francis as he was literally a cripple after some major accident. I think he died hating VI-Control
Wait. Francis is gone?

He fell off a horse, by the way. My understanding was that he wasn't permanently crippled, but maybe that was just a brave front.
 
Wait. Francis is gone?

He fell off a horse, by the way. My understanding was that he wasn't permanently crippled, but maybe that was just a brave front.
I thought he died. Not from the accident but more recently. As far as being crippled I just remember him being bed ridden at that time.

I always liked the guy really. He hated me for some reason. I was trying to defend him back then and then he started attacking me. I think one too many jokes at the wrong time on my part.
 
Top Bottom