The Guy Michelmore Appreciation Thread

el-bo said:

I already bought a few parts of Jason Allen's 'Music Theory Comprehensive Complete' course (Udemy), a while back, thinking that the best way to proceed would be to start right at the beginning and move slowly. That hasn't happened. I guess I need a much quicker pay-off; enough to kindle the fires of interest and motivate to go deeper, at which point I think Jason's course will feel a little more approachable.

Curious to know, however, if it felt like it was complete, in and of itself i.e If you had no access to any further resources (Other than re-watching Guy's course, over and over), do you feel that you have a solid enough foundation?

Thanks, again.

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I have the Jason Allen courses as well (he has quite a few variations, such as Music Theory Comprehensive Complete!, Music Theory for Electronic Music COMPLETE, Composition & Film Scoring 1 & 2, Music Theory for Electronic Musicians and Music Composition), which I haven't really got into yet, but they do look ver comprehensive. I have been mainly using Music Composition with the Piano: Ultimate Keyboard Theory Music Composition and Practicing & Arranging with the Piano by Jack Vaughan which are much more about technique than theory, but do include theory. I find these the best and worked well with the Guy Michelmore Theory lessons.

There is also the videos by lessons by Jonathan Peters that cover theory but also go into orchestration and harmony. For practical composing there are lots of lessons by Mikael Baggström. I also have 2 courses on orchestating for strings and woodwinds Karleen Heong but I am yet to try them out.

I have have hundreds of youtube tutorials. At times it feels like there is a bit too much out there when it comes to composition. I find Skillshare pretty good as it has most of these courses included and you can often sign up for 40% off for the year subscription (I think mine cost just £50)

Markrs said:

I have the Jason Allen courses as well (he has quite a few variations, such as Music Theory Comprehensive Complete!, Music Theory for Electronic Music COMPLETE, Composition & Film Scoring 1 & 2, Music Theory for Electronic Musicians and Music Composition), which I haven't really got into yet, but they do look ver comprehensive. I have been mainly using Music Composition with the Piano: Ultimate Keyboard Theory Music Composition and Practicing & Arranging with the Piano by Jack Vaughan which are much more about technique than theory, but do include theory. I find these the best and worked well with the Guy Michelmore Theory lessons.

There is also the videos by lessons by Jonathan Peters that cover theory but also go into orchestration and harmony. For practical composing there are lots of lessons by Mikael Baggström. I also have 2 courses on orchestating for strings and woodwinds Karleen Heong but I am yet to try them out.

I have have hundreds of youtube tutorials. At times it feels like there is a bit too much out there when it comes to composition. I find Skillshare pretty good as it has most of these courses included and you can often sign up for 40% off for the year subscription (I think mine cost just £50)

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Thanks for the detailed reply!

Have seen the other courses from Jason Allen. The reason i chose his main theory course was because I liked the idea of that much content being laid out so methodically, as opposed to two hours with one tutor...another three with someone else etc. Nothing wrong with supplementing like that. However, to try to grab information from disparate sources, without a solid framework (For me) would leave me with the feeling that I'd missed out on important stages.

Will definitely check out the others that you mention (Already subscribed to Mikael Baggström), and will keep an eye on Skillshare.

Cheers!

Ahhh yes. One of my favorite youtubers indeed, one of the very few whose general demeanor inspires me to be a better person in general. A positive attitude I could never match and a level of humility one can only strive for. Of course this would all be pointless if the content wasn't interesting or fun and thankfully it usually is.

Well Guy, if you read this, I appreciate your work very much indeed.

el-bo said:

What is your experience with his basic theory course? Have you finished it, and how solid a foundation do you feel it has given you?

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Yes, I did finish it. For me, I was trucking along well with the first half because I knew some of the info, and was overwhelmed in the second half.

There’s a lot of great information, but for me, it would have been better in a setting where I was putting that knowledge to use right away.

But it’s important to note that I’m doing all this for personal enrichment. I’m not in a formal study where there’s structure and reinforcement of new information. So while it was overwhelming, I didn’t feel bad about it, nor did I feel I wasted my time. I know that certain things will stick only in practice or when you really need to know it.

I guess my feeling on the course (and any theory course like it) is that, to get the most out of it, you should be doing something else in conjunction with it that forces you to use what you’re learning.

For example, if you’re new like I am, you grab a short video on a site like Pixaby and decide to create a short score based on that video, incorporating what you’re learning in the theory course. As you learn more theory, you tweak your video score. I don’t know... just something where you’re putting some of what you learn to immediate use. Otherwise, it just feels like an avalanche of facts that you’d have no hope of remembering in isolation.

OMG! I have to chime in here, too. Also a huge Guy Michelmore fan. I'm a n00b as regards theory, and I bought his theory courses just as a way to say "thanks" for one very specific thing he clarified. After years of wondering why are Perfect 4ths, and Perfect 5ths named that way(told you I was a n00b!) - one of his YouTube videos clarified it for me. I was ecstatic! I remain grateful, and generally giddy to see new videos as well - like many of you have already mentioned.

Guy - props for your excellent work! If you ever have a day when you doubt your contribution, please come back and re-read this thread!

Totally off-topic post.

@Markrs @el-bo Jason Allen's course covers a lot of topics, but I thought it was not put together very well. It feels like he's not using a proper script, notably in the initial lessons where he skims through many basic concepts. He uses MuseScore to teach notation, which is a great piece of software for the purpose, but he stumbles though it for some reason.

If you're new to music theory, I would suggest getting a hold of Trinity College or ABRSM music theory workbooks and going through them from Grade 1 through 8 at your own pace. Use past exam papers to test yourself. That's how I started learning music theory; started from zero like 3 years ago, and eventually cleared the exams. You can probably use Jason Allen's course to fill in the gaps as you're learning.

Jay Panikkar said:

Totally off-topic post.

@Markrs @el-bo Jason Allen's course covers a lot of topics, but I thought it was not put together very well. It feels like he's not using a proper script, notably in the initial lessons where he skims through many basic concepts. He uses MuseScore to teach notation, which is a great piece of software for the purpose, but he stumbles though it for some reason.

If you're new to music theory, I would suggest getting a hold of Trinity College or ABRSM music theory workbooks and going through them from Grade 1 through 8 at your own pace. Use past exam papers to test yourself. That's how I started learning music theory; started from zero like 3 years ago, and eventually cleared the exams. You can probably use Jason Allen's course to fill in the gaps as you're learning.

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Great advice,i will look into those recommendations, thank you!

This guy actually causes me to have fun when I am composing. I feel like I'm able to sit down and relax and not take it so seriously. What a treasure.

LOVE Guy!! Once we get our pool installed I plan to jump into it with a MIDI controller in homage to him.

MikeK said:

Yes, I did finish it. For me, I was trucking along well with the first half because I knew some of the info, and was overwhelmed in the second half.

There’s a lot of great information, but for me, it would have been better in a setting where I was putting that knowledge to use right away.

But it’s important to note that I’m doing all this for personal enrichment. I’m not in a formal study where there’s structure and reinforcement of new information. So while it was overwhelming, I didn’t feel bad about it, nor did I feel I wasted my time. I know that certain things will stick only in practice or when you really need to know it.

I guess my feeling on the course (and any theory course like it) is that, to get the most out of it, you should be doing something else in conjunction with it that forces you to use what you’re learning.

For example, if you’re new like I am, you grab a short video on a site like Pixaby and decide to create a short score based on that video, incorporating what you’re learning in the theory course. As you learn more theory, you tweak your video score. I don’t know... just something where you’re putting some of what you learn to immediate use. Otherwise, it just feels like an avalanche of facts that you’d have no hope of remembering in isolation.

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Thanks for your reply!

Like you, i will be studying at my own pace, and without any real structure and reinforcement

I agree with the idea of using it in conjunction with other material. Ideally, I'd watch through a section just to get a general idea, and then re-watch to dissect and supplement with info from other sources and experimenting with real-world examples. That's the plan, anyway.

I think I'd prefer this course to be more info heavy, as it would seem a better use of the allotted time and an even greater value-proposition. I'm also gambling on Guy's general exuberant nature to help make that kind of rote learning more of a fun proposition. Besides, there are a lot of other courses that'll help provide a more hands-on context for applying music theory principals.

Thanks, again.

Jay Panikkar said:

Totally off-topic post.

@Markrs @el-bo Jason Allen's course covers a lot of topics, but I thought it was not put together very well. It feels like he's not using a proper script, notably in the initial lessons where he skims through many basic concepts. He uses MuseScore to teach notation, which is a great piece of software for the purpose, but he stumbles though it for some reason.

If you're new to music theory, I would suggest getting a hold of Trinity College or ABRSM music theory workbooks and going through them from Grade 1 through 8 at your own pace. Use past exam papers to test yourself. That's how I started learning music theory; started from zero like 3 years ago, and eventually cleared the exams. You can probably use Jason Allen's course to fill in the gaps as you're learning.

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Thanks for your opinion on Jason's course. I did resist the temptation to buy his compete course (I did pick up the first 6 units, though, for about 20 quid), just in case I didn't take to the style. And going back to it, I did detect it to be a little 'dry'. Haven't used it enough to pick up on your points-of-criticism, however. I would be surprised if things start to improve as he gets deeper into the course, and finds a 'groove'. How far into it did you get?

As to the Trinity College and ABRSM suggestion: I tend to try to avoid physical media where possible. And though i do make exceptions for larger-format textbooks, collecting all these (Workbooks, sample books etc.) involves owning over twenty books. At this point in my life, I'm having a hard time imagining being of fixed-abode long enough for a collection like this to not be of some inconvenience. I dunno...Perhaps they are such a good option, that even selling them upon completion would lead to a real net gain. Just a shame they aren't available digitally Perhaps I'll take a punt on the first workbook. They aren't expensive, and they have new versions, ready to preorder (Expected October, I believe).

Many thanks

el-bo said:

Thanks for your opinion on Jason's course. I did resist the temptation to buy his compete course (I did pick up the first 6 units, though, for about 20 quid), just in case I didn't take to the style. And going back to it, I did detect it to be a little 'dry'. Haven't used it enough to pick up on your points-of-criticism, however. I would be surprised if things start to improve as he gets deeper into the course, and finds a 'groove'. How far into it did you get?

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There was a Udemy sale sometime back, so I bought the first 9 units. The pacing and delivery improves in the latter units but these units are not really advanced level. If I do purchase the advanced units, I'll let you know how it goes.

el-bo said:

As to the Trinity College and ABRSM suggestion: I tend to try to avoid physical media where possible. And though i do make exceptions for larger-format textbooks, collecting all these (Workbooks, sample books etc.) involves owning over twenty books. At this point in my life, I'm having a hard time imagining being of fixed-abode long enough for a collection like this to not be of some inconvenience. I dunno...Perhaps they are such a good option, that even selling them upon completion would lead to a real net gain. Just a shame they aren't available digitally Perhaps I'll take a punt on the first workbook. They aren't expensive, and they have new versions, ready to preorder (Expected October, I believe).

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In this case, I think there is an advantage to using physical media. Learning music theory is identical to learning a language: it's all about comprehension, grammar and vocabulary. I think pen and paper is more suited to capturing these kinds of concepts. Also, notational handwriting can be a useful skill.

I had little prior musical training apart from a few mandatory (and boring) instrumental lessons in middle school. No one in my immediate family with any musical aptitude whatsoever. I worked in a recording studio for a while during college, which sparked an interest in music. The workbook format helped me learn in a more disciplined / systematic manner pretty much from scratch. There are plenty of free guides and resources online (including many sample exam papers) that go along with the workbooks.

I hope you find them as useful as I did.

Jay Panikkar said:

There was a Udemy sale sometime back, so I bought the first 9 units. The pacing and delivery improves in the latter units but these units are not really advanced level. If I do purchase the advanced units, I'll let you know how it goes.

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Yup! Got the first six units in a sale. Glad to hear that things start to gel a bit better in the later videos

Jay Panikkar said:

In this case, I think there is an advantage to using physical media. Learning music theory is identical to learning a language: it's all about comprehension, grammar and vocabulary. I think pen and paper is more suited to capturing these kinds of concepts. Also, notational handwriting can be a useful skill.

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I agree about the advantages of physical media, in cases such as this. I just don't like the thought of having to be without them if I end up spending the rest of my days living out of a backpack.
I suppose, theoretically ( ), the fact that they are really covering the basics means that I'd eventually end up not needing to refer back to them (Once I have a good grounding, it would be easier to piece together further learning, from more disparate sources.

As long as I do all the written wrk in pencil, they could be passed-on.

Jay Panikkar said:

I had little prior musical training apart from a few mandatory (and boring) instrumental lessons in middle school. No one in my immediate family with any musical aptitude whatsoever. I worked in a recording studio for a while during college, which sparked an interest in music. The workbook format helped me learn in a more disciplined / systematic manner pretty much from scratch. There are plenty of free guides and resources online (including many sample exam papers) that go along with the workbooks.

I hope you find them as useful as I did.

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Haha! I decided against pursuing work in studios for the exact opposite reason i.e that it would kill my interest in music :D

Will definitely check out the books. Will likely order the first book of the new editions. Will probably get it around the same time as Guy's course.

Many thanks for your help. Perhaps we should leave it there, though Things are now getting really off-topic (Not your fault)

ZosterX said:

I'm looking to getting the course "sampled orchestration in a week-end", does it worth it ? Do we really learn that much of how makin samples realistic ?

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Depends how much you know already.

I have bought 8 of his courses (not completely finished all yet), and so far I am very impressed by nearly all of them, and really learned a lot. (Thank you Guy! )
However, "Sampled Orchestration in a Weekend" was - for me - the only one I more or less regret buying, because it was not what I expected.

I expected to learn stuff like how to modulate different VI parameters (like how to play with dynamics, vibrato etc. depending on the instruments; When do you increase/decrease dynamics, or when do you apply or remove vibrato, in order to make the instrument sound more realistic?), similar to things like Mike Verta is explaining in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OktpoOztRvQ (-this-) video; As the advertisement says "Learn to breathe life into your sampled orchestrations so they do not sound flat and artificial."
However, basically you only learn the fact that you can change dynamics and things like vibrato using CCs, but not really how to apply it depending on the contexts (e.g. when to increase/decrease dynamics)...

The course covers background to sampling in general (different approaches of sampling, what are dynamic layers, round robins etc.), the setup for working with sampled instruments (computer basics (CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD etc.), the "one track per instrument with key-switches approach" + Articulation IDs/Expression Maps, and the "multiple tracks per instrument and one track per articulation approach"), the basics of working with CCs, a bit on room-placement/Reverb, What are Legato patches and what are Perfomance-Samples, a bit on dynamics, a bit on layering (but also only basics, like adding a spicc to a sus sample, to give the sus sample a harder attack).

My impression is, it is a course for total "newbies" with respect to sampled instruments.
If you are a musician who never heard of "Kontakt", and only know that there are instruments inside the computer and want to start working with them, it might be a helpful course which covers the basics of what sampled instruments are and how you start working with them.
But if you already own sampled instruments, and already worked with them; when you know the basics of keyswitches, CCs and how to use them; when you know that for lyrical lines you should pick the legato patch instead of the sustains patch; when you know the basics of reverb and room placement... then, like me, you won't learn a lot new.

robgb said:

This guy has been killing it on YouTube for years. His upbeat delivery and enthusiasm for sample libraries and composing is infectious. I don't think he's a member of this forum, but I wish he were. I never miss one of his videos.

Guy Michelmore

ThinkSpace Education is an online film scoring school providing post-graduate degrees in film, TV and now video games. Our videos provide a fast, fun and eff...

www.youtube.com

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Thanks for the mention, will check his channel.

Thinkspace education courses. They are on sale for one week!

Yeah, he is awesome. He is a rare mix of outbursting, extrovert personality and "composer".

Really enjoy his videos. Informative AND funny.

I've done 3 courses from him and plan to do a lot more.
I've learnt more from him than from any other single person.

I want to be like him when I grow up.

robgb said:

This guy has been killing it on YouTube for years. His upbeat delivery and enthusiasm for sample libraries and composing is infectious. I don't think he's a member of this forum, but I wish he were. I never miss one of his videos.

Guy Michelmore

ThinkSpace Education is an online film scoring school providing post-graduate degrees in film, TV and now video games. Our videos provide a fast, fun and eff...

www.youtube.com

Click to expand...

Absolutely one of the few I subscribe to AND watch when the bell tolls. Especially now that his assistant edits out the audio whenever Guy slurps his tea mug.

Same here. I only discovered Guy a few weeks ago and I'm now addicted to his channel.
Been watching and rewatching his video's almost daily.
He does give you the "go for it" feel with a very professional but also very amusing way of
presenting.

Love the sunglasses gimmick too LOL