Afflatus Chapter II Brass

I have prepared example files for those who were curious to hear the horn solo of "Cine Samples / CineBrass". But before that, I prepared the audio file for those who didn't understand the crescendo graph image in comment #3.

This is a short note of Horn Solo of Afflatus / Brass. As you can see in the image below, its crescendo is completely smooth and performed with a straight slope. But the sound of the horn is not a gradual crescendo, it has a dynamic jump.



View attachment Aflattus Brass - Crescendo.mp3

I will not be surprised if you still do not understand the problem. Because as I said before, this is a problem that you have to experience under your own fingers.

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And now CineBrass Horns. I have played the solo melody by two different libraries from Cine Samples company: "CineBrass CORE", and "CineBrass DESCANT HORN". One of them plays "p" and the other one plays "f". No processing has been done on files, and are completely pure and dry.



View attachment Horn Solo Legato - CORE.mp3
View attachment Horn Solo Legato - DESCANT HORN.mp3

In the example of the files above, the transition, quality of the sound color, and even the pressure of the musician's lips can be felt!
Of course, these kinds of comparisons are meaningless for those who are familiar with the real French horn. Because it is very easy for them to recognize the quality of the library by ear. In fact, all libraries are trying to achieve real instruments quality, not quality of the other libraries. Therefore, for those who are skeptical about new libraries, I recommend that they seriously spend their time getting to know the and learn about instruments of the orchestra.

Trevor M. said:

Therefore, for those who are skeptical about new libraries, I recommend that they seriously spend their time getting to know the and learn about instruments of the orchestra.

Click to expand...

I "seriously know" the orchestral instruments but I am also "skeptical about new librairies". The two are not mutually exclusive! In fact the opposite. I'm not sure your point makes sense. (Maybe lost in translation?)
Also, the less than 1 second clip you posted of the Afflatus horn solo- it is so short it is meaningless. Did you mean to truncate it like that?

Frankly it is pointless to compare solo horns which have 4 dynamic layers with solo horns which have less dynamic layers or even worse the dynamics inside are not the full dynamic spectrum of a horn, because of course then the crossfading and dynamic jump will be less obvious. pp to mf with an arbitrary amount of dynamic layers will sound more smooth as pp to ff with an arbitrary amount of dynamic layers, because of the nature of that instrument making it way easier to achieve a smooth crossfade in the p to mf range.

A meaningful comparison would be to find two different solo horns, which both aim to capture pp to ff dynamics and compare the crossfading there.

Also what @pinki posted before.

R.Cato said:

Frankly it is pointless to compare solo horns which have 4 dynamic layers with solo horns which have less dynamic layers or even worse the dynamics inside are not the full dynamic spectrum of a horn, because of course then the crossfading and dynamic jump will be less obvious. pp to mf with an arbitrary amount of dynamic layers will sound more smooth as pp to ff with an arbitrary amount of dynamic layers, because of the nature of that instrument making it way easier to achieve a smooth crossfade in the p to mf range.

A meaningful comparison would be to find two different solo horns, which both aim to capture pp to ff dynamics and compare the crossfading there.

Also what @pinki posted before.

Click to expand...

I think you haven't read the previous comments, R.Cato.
My purpose in post #21 was not to compare "CineBrass CORE", to "CineBrass DESCANT HORN". Some one wanted just to hear the CineBras horns. This topic is actually about the new brass library of Afflatus. But I didn`t give any melody example of Afflatus, because dear Beats had already done it.

pinki said:

I "seriously know" the orchestral instruments but I am also "skeptical about new librairies". The two are not mutually exclusive! In fact the opposite. I'm not sure your point makes sense. (Maybe lost in translation?)
Also, the less than 1 second clip you posted of the Afflatus horn solo- it is so short it is meaningless. Did you mean to truncate it like that?

Click to expand...

When you are "skeptical about new libraries", it means that you "seriously don't know" about orchestral instruments!
By the way, I have an easy suggestion for you to understand the file in "less than 1 second". Just buy Afflatus Brass library and check it yourself and feel under your finger how the crescendo works. Easy! This maybe also clear any doubt you may have!

Trevor M. said:

When you are "skeptical about new libraries", it means that you "seriously don't know" about orchestral instruments!

Click to expand...

That still doesn’t make sense! It is a logical non-sequitur.

John Smith is sceptical and cautious before he purchases new sample libraries that imitate orchestral instruments.
This is because John has not familiarised himself with the real instruments of the orchestra.

Nope, that still doesn’t make sense. I am not understanding you.

By the way, I have an easy suggestion for you to understand the file in "less than 1 second". Just buy Afflatus Brass library and check it yourself and feel under your finger how the crescendo works. Easy! This maybe also clear any doubt you may have!

Click to expand...

But why not just post an example that makes sense (longer than 0.5 seconds.) instead of telling people to just go out and buy it if they don’t ‘get it’? The the whole point of a forum like this is to help people who are considering a purchase.

If you do a mini-review and people are struggling to understand you, turning around and telling them ‘go buy the library’ isn’t really much use.

pinki said:

That still doesn’t make sense! It is a logical non-sequitur.

John Smith is sceptical and cautious before he purchases new sample libraries that imitate orchestral instruments.
This is because John has not familiarised himself with the real instruments of the orchestra.

Nope, that still doesn’t make sense. I am not understanding you.


But why not just post an example that makes sense (longer than 0.5 seconds.) instead of telling people to just go out and buy it if they don’t ‘get it’? The the whole point of a forum like this is to help people who are considering a purchase.

If you do a mini-review and people are struggling to understand you, turning around and telling them ‘go buy the library’ isn’t really much use.

Click to expand...

In this topic, I mentioned the major weak points of the Afflatus Brass library, it`s not a review. Any one who finds it useful, can use it. And any one who finds it not useful, can leave the page. The choice is easy! This is what I can do, I don't owe anyone.

By the way, I didn't tell to the "people" to buy and check the library! I told it only to "John Smith" who can not even comprehend "touching the mod wheel for crescendo is a personal experience" (the thing that I mentioned many times in my previous posts too, but John Smith did not understand). John even cannot comprehend that jumping the crescendo from p to ff, can be better understood and felt in short notes. I am not supposed to grab John Smith`s hand by force and make him to touch the mod wheel by forth!!

Some people understand, some don't understand, and some other don't like to understand for some reason. And I'm not sure which of the last two types John Smith is. Maybe John Smith is one of the shareholders of Strezov Sampling Company! Although it doesn't matter to me, this is what I can do.

Trevor M. said:

I think you haven't read the previous comments, R.Cato.
My purpose in post #21 was not to compare "CineBrass CORE", to "CineBrass DESCANT HORN". Some one wanted just to hear the CineBras horns. This topic is actually about the new brass library of Afflatus. But I didn`t give any melody example of Afflatus, because dear Beats had already done it.

Click to expand...

That someone was me. I wanted to hear a direct comparison between the - as you called it - 'not-natural' legato of Afflatus vs the 'natural' legato of CineSamples. Just out of interest.
Thanks for providing the CineSamples examples but I wonder why you didn't record an Afflatus version of the ET-theme next to the CineSamples ones. That would be enlightning, wouldn't it?

Trevor M. said:

When you are "skeptical about new libraries", it means that you "seriously don't know" about orchestral instruments!

Click to expand...

Trevor M. said:

In this topic, I mentioned the major weak points of the Afflatus Brass library, it`s not a review. Any one who finds it useful, can use it. And any one who finds it not useful, can leave the page. The choice is easy! This is what I can do, I don't owe anyone.

By the way, I didn't tell to the "people" to buy and check the library! I told it only to "John Smith" who can not even comprehend "touching the mod wheel for crescendo is a personal experience" (the thing that I mentioned many times in my previous posts too, but John Smith did not understand). John even cannot comprehend that jumping the crescendo from p to ff, can be better understood and felt in short notes. I am not supposed to grab John Smith`s hand by force and make him to touch the mod wheel by forth!!

Some people understand, some don't understand, and some other don't like to understand for some reason. And I'm not sure which of the last two types John Smith is. Maybe John Smith is one of the shareholders of Strezov Sampling Company! Although it doesn't matter to me, this is what I can do.

Click to expand...

Whatever. You completely misunderstood me. Your use of the English language just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm moving on. Enjoy your purchase. Keep on blowin'

Maarten said:

That someone was me. I wanted to hear a direct comparison between the - as you called it - 'not-natural' legato of Afflatus vs the 'natural' legato of CineSamples. Just out of interest.
Thanks for providing the CineSamples examples but I wonder why you didn't record an Afflatus version of the ET-theme next to the CineSamples ones. That would be enlightning, wouldn't it?

Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply, Maarten.

It's good that you recognized the E.T. theme

Good question. The answer is: No.

Because:

1. Our dear friend Beats has already done this well. All transitions, attach, dynamics and also timbre and quality of the sound are obvious on the examples.

2. If we believe "recording an Afflatus version of the ET-theme next to the CineSamples would be enlightening", it`s like we believe "each library is produced for a specific music"! E.T. theme or any other theme is just an excuse to check out the libraries.

3. Actually, it's not about "comparing two sample libraries". It is important to compare to the real instrument. As I said before, "the real instrument is the resource" which all libraries are trying to achieve. We need to know the real instruments well.

Regarding the problem of crescendo control, I emphasize again that if a user experiences it under his/her own fingers, the problem will be more understandable.

Trevor M. said:

Sorry for the late reply, Maarten.

It's good that you recognized the E.T. theme

Good question. The answer is: No.

Because:

1. Our dear friend Beats has already done this well. All transitions, attach, dynamics and also timbre and quality of the sound are obvious on the examples.

2. If we believe "recording an Afflatus version of the ET-theme next to the CineSamples would be enlightening", it`s like we believe "each library is produced for a specific music"! E.T. theme or any other theme is just an excuse to check out the libraries.

3. Actually, it's not about "comparing two sample libraries". It is important to compare to the real instrument. As I said before, "the real tool is the resource" which all libraries are trying to achieve. We need to know the real instruments well.

Regarding the problem of crescendo control, I emphasize again that if a user experiences it under his/her own fingers, the problem will be more understandable.

Click to expand...

That's a shame. A missed opportunity to perfectly illustrate the 'problem' you have with Afflatus. But ok, it's your call.
Having said that, I can indeed hear some weird transitions in the example of Beats. Hopefully the announced update will deal with this.

Beats said:

I found a bit of spare time so here are some examples.

I’m not trying to overly expose any flaws, this is just me trying to arranging a piano idea I had using Afflatus Brass. You can judge for yourselves and make up your own minds.

All patches are set to monophonic legato and the reverbs are turned off. The legato speed is the default 25%.



3 Trumpets
View attachment Afflatus Brass - 3 Trumpets Legato.mp3




2 Horns
View attachment Afflatus Brass - 2 Horns Legato.mp3




Full arrangment
• 3 Trumpet
• 2 Horns
• 2 Horns
• 3 Trombones
• Low Brass (Bass Trombone, Cimbasso, Tuba)
View attachment Afflatus Brass - Full arrangment.mp3




I hope this will be helpful for anyone trying to decide whether to get this library. I rather like it but I find it a bit unruly. It feel very close to being really good though, it just needs a bit more polish.

Click to expand...

I forgot to thank you for providing these examples, there is clearly something wrong with these transitions (too loud, overlapping sustains?). I took the liberty to recreate the melody from the 2 horns with CineSamples Sonore Horns (a4) and 2 Horns from Infinite Brass / Aaron Venture. I hope you don't mind. The expression is not exactly the same as your example but that's not the point. The transitions from CineSamples and Infinite Brass are indeed better.

Afflatus Horns (a2): your example:

View attachment Afflatus.mp3

CineSamples Sonore Horns (a4)

View attachment Sonore Horn_1.mp3

Infinite Brass (a2) Bersa Hall

View attachment Infinite Brass.mp3

Hopefully the next update of Afflatus Brass will address these issues.

Trevor M. said:

I will not be surprised if you still do not understand the problem. Because as I said before, this is a problem that you have to experience under your own fingers.

Click to expand...

I think Afflatus has some problems with dynamic layers that are hard to show with audio files. I find it hard to play it in a musical way. There are ~4 dynamic layers that are very distinct in their timbre. Subtle dynamic changes are sometimes not possible with CC1 because it feels like the transition between layers is too abrupt. I rather need to find the right dynamic layer, lock it and then use CC11 for subtle changes. That's really strange, because it has a good amount of layers...

I bought Berlin Brass as well and it feels more natural to me, with more musical/playable CC1 crossfades.

VVEremita said:

I think Afflatus has some problems with dynamic layers that are hard to show with audio files. I find it hard to play it in a musical way. There are ~4 dynamic layers that are very distinct in their timbre. Subtle dynamic changes are sometimes not possible with CC1 because it feels like the transition between layers is too abrupt. I rather need to find the right dynamic layer, lock it and then use CC11 for subtle changes. That's really strange, because it has a good amount of layers...

I bought Berlin Brass as well and it feels more natural to me, with more musical/playable CC1 crossfades.

Click to expand...

What you are saying "abrupt" about Afflatuus, is exactly what I`ve said during my previous posts. And of course you can feel that problem, because you have the library and can experience it under you fingers.

Trevor M. said:

What you are saying "abrupt" about Afflatuus, is exactly what I`ve said during my previous posts. And of course you can feel that problem, because you have the library and can experience that under you fingers.

Click to expand...

And I am not the only one, I am on a Discord where another user has the same feeling. I can't really say if it is an issue or just an inconvenience, or something I will get used to. But right now it keeps me from fully utilizing Afflatus Brass, even though it has a lot going for it.

This is the most circular conversation I've ever seen on VI Control. It's making me dizzy.

Maarten said:

I forgot to thank you for providing these examples, there is clearly something wrong with these transitions (too loud, overlapping sustains?). I took the liberty to recreate the melody from the 2 horns with CineSamples Sonore Horns (a4) and 2 Horns from Infinite Brass / Aaron Venture. I hope you don't mind. The expression is not exactly the same as your example but that's not the point. The transitions from CineSamples and Infinite Brass are indeed better.

Afflatus Horns (a2): your example:

View attachment Afflatus.mp3

CineSamples Sonore Horns (a4)

View attachment Sonore Horn_1.mp3

Infinite Brass (a2) Bersa Hall

View attachment Infinite Brass.mp3

Hopefully the next update of Afflatus Brass will address these issues.

Click to expand...

No problem!

I've been in contact with the support at @StrezovSampling. At first they also seemed to think there was a problem and they said they were going to look into it. Later they changes their minds and said that the problem is that the legato speed it set too slow.

Setting the speed faster does make the transitions sound a bit better but no mater how fast you set the legato speed the amplitude of some of the transitions are still way loud.

Their point of view is that they were going for a more pronounced legato in this library and seem to think that the overly loud transitions are a feature, not a bug.

I'm trying to convince them to at least put a knob in the GUI - controllable via CC - with which to correct for the bad transitions. I think that's a fair trade off if they're not going to do anything else about it.