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How do you get out of that rut where your current setup just can't produce the sound you want?

When you are not at work, could you post something? This may be more of a "why I buy things" discussion thread rather than a "what do I buy next?" discussion thread but there are some fantastic sounding mockups out there using samples and modelled instruments, meaning this is not just about an endless pursuit of libraries.

Of course libraries, probably multiple, will be involved, but without something to listen to, posts are going to be little more than aimless conjecture.
 
VSriHarsha said:
Have you got your String library yet? I see you are interested about the VMS? How’s that going for you so far? On the other hand, are the VI series still on sale?
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VI Series and VMS are still on sale but I want to finish my current concert band mock up first before getting a strings library.

The VI Strings sound a bit too synthetic for my tastes when compared with other contenders like VMS, Berlin, Spitfire, CSS, etc. Their woodwinds are great and aged the best, the brass don’t sound as good as Berlin Brass or Metropolis Ark but they have a lot of technique and their sound is convincing enough, percussion is a hit or miss because I don’t like the snare and piatti. The strings tho sound a bit too synthy and probably not something Berlin Studio can really fix. Also no violin 2. The Synchron Strings are better but don’t seem to give me the same ring as Berlin. The Chamber Strings might be worth a look as their small size works better with the super dry recording venue but I’m not really prioritizing it.

I will most likely start with Venice Modern Strings first cause it just sounds fantastic. Will create a lot of mock ups with it then come Black Friday, I’ll buy whatever I feel covers its weaknesses. I’m eyeing Berlin Symphonic Strings because of their bigger size, I like OT and their sound, and it has rapid legatos and shorts that Venice likely isn’t good at.
 
VMS has nice timbre but apart from the shorts not being that good, I think the legato probably more suitable for slow to moderate tempo writing ? I've yet heard any demo on fast legato passage. When such things aren't shown in the official demo, I'll conclude it's not suitable for that context.
 
José Herring said:
Trumpets are the Achilles Heel of sample libraries. Nothing out there sounds like a real trumpet or trumpets.
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hard disagree here
Sample modeling the trumpet is very good, same for the birth of the trumpet by straight ahead samples. And there are more libs that are that very convincing with relative ease (hard to make out if it's played with a real trumpet or through these "libs" in musical context)
most of these libs require reverbs and some EQ, but saying trumpets are the Achilles heel, is not the case for all libraries.
 
Most of us on here probably have enough sample libraries that we've forgotten we even own some of the older ones.... I've found myself going back and really deep diving into instruments I never even used the first time around... Also, not letting perfection be the enemy of done!
 
RogiervG said:
hard disagree here
Sample modeling the trumpet is very good, same for the birth of the trumpet by straight ahead samples. And there are more libs that are that very convincing with relative ease (hard to make out if it's played with a real trumpet or through these "libs" in musical context)
most of these libs require reverbs and some EQ, but saying trumpets are the Achilles heel, is not the case for all libraries.
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But you do realize when we’re saying libraries, they’re actually played by real people right? Although, modeling IS quite different. And yea I do agree there ARE pretty convincing libraries out there.
 
JoeWatkin said:
Most of us on here probably have enough sample libraries that we've forgotten we even own some of the older ones.... I've found myself going back and really deep diving into instruments I never even used the first time around... Also, not letting perfection be the enemy of done!
Click to expand...
I know that’s right. You know finding & digging it deep of the libraries you own just makes a pact. I mean it sometimes REALLY is the key to find the solution.

You know I just said things like that & I was like “Ok I ‘ll buy libraries sometime but not now. Even it’s just $5”

Few minutes later:
8758B349-333F-4641-AFE9-92AA6B6D999F.jpeg

Just can’t help it!
 
VSriHarsha said:
I know that’s right. You know finding & digging it deep of the libraries you own just makes a pact. I mean it sometimes REALLY is the key to find the solution.

You know I just said things like that & I was like “Ok I ‘ll buy libraries sometime but not now. Even it’s just $5”

Few minutes later:
8758B349-333F-4641-AFE9-92AA6B6D999F.jpeg

Just can’t help it!
Click to expand...
Tbf the kazoo is a pure investment, you'll make that $5 back and then some!
 
Elliot A said:
When you are not at work, could you post something? This may be more of a "why I buy things" discussion thread rather than a "what do I buy next?" discussion thread but there are some fantastic sounding mockups out there using samples and modelled instruments, meaning this is not just about an endless pursuit of libraries.

Of course libraries, probably multiple, will be involved, but without something to listen to, posts are going to be little more than aimless conjecture.
Click to expand...
Aight it's demo time.

As mentioned above, I'm having a hard time getting the VSL cornet library to sound good when it's playing fast articulations.

Here's the part of the mock-up where it's slow. I think the cornet section fits right in with its mellow sound.

View attachment Slow Demo.mp3

Now here's the part I can't seem to get right. The cornets sound a bit too puny and lack that oomph, or is that how cornets are normally supposed to sound? I tried running the part on Berlin Brass but it then becomes too punchy.

View attachment Fast Demo.mp3

constaneum said:
VMS has nice timbre but apart from the shorts not being that good, I think the legato probably more suitable for slow to moderate tempo writing ? I've yet heard any demo on fast legato passage. When such things aren't shown in the official demo, I'll conclude it's not suitable for that context.
Click to expand...
I keep going back and forth with VMS for a good reason. It sounds fantastic yes but the fact that their demos are all slow and lyrical has me wary since maybe that's all they'd sound fantastic on then they'd fall apart if I try to play fast runs or fast shorts with them. I was thinking maybe something more flexible like Berlin Strings or VSL VI Orchestral Strings would make me less likely to go look elsewhere.
 
After listening to your examples, I believe taking the time to learn mixing, compression, EQ & effects in more detail will get you much, much closer to your vision than any library purchase will.
 
MartinH. said:
Be honest to yourself - do you really need new/different sounds every time that happens, or do you just need the dopamine from buying something new to get you writing at all? I bet a lot of hobbyists here can relate to the later.
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Actually, the exact opposite for me and I'm pure hobbyist. But I do want decent sounds and a system that stays out of the way, so have spent a fair amount. But once I have something that sounds decent for the things I'm doing, I'm not gassing for more. The key for me is I don't need to sound exactly like the Star Wars theme, or exactly like [fill in the blank]...in fact I don't want to. I just want decent sounds that I can use to create something unique that doesn't sound like everything else, and hopefully not like anything else. I've learned to really enjoy the "fishing expedition" approach as opposed to the "I have to hit that specific bullseye from 500 yards" approach. But then I also don't need to sell anything to make a living. And that key fact allows me time to deep learn my smaller population of products instead of scrambling to find something that can fit a job requirement every time a job comes in.
 
VSriHarsha said:
But you do realize when we’re saying libraries, they’re actually played by real people right? Although, modeling IS quite different. And yea I do agree there ARE pretty convincing libraries out there.
Click to expand...
No sure i follow you?
I you are reacting to my "hard to make out if it's played with a real trumpet or through these "libs" in musical context)" I meant the melody/motive that is recorded. For many listeners (even musicians), it's very hard to differentiate the midi/library versions by these libs vs it (melody/motive) being performed by on a real trumpet.

Modelling IS different indeed, yet, Sample modeling uses samples underneath (albeit very short samples, on which they do add synthesis and whatnot)
 
InsomniaEmperor said:
The cornets sound a bit too puny and lack that oomph, or is that how cornets are normally supposed to sound?
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I've always thought of cornets as "mellow trumpets". But that said, maybe try putting an exciter on them? It may be enough to get them where you want, or it may completely blow chunks. But its easy and you'll know which it is within a minute or two...

Maybe demo PA's Noveltech Character (not described as an exciter, but sure works like one in practice imo). And for more of a sledge hammer, Fine Cut Bodies' LaPetite (free).
 
RogiervG said:
hard disagree here
Sample modeling the trumpet is very good, same for the birth of the trumpet by straight ahead samples. And there are more libs that are that very convincing with relative ease (hard to make out if it's played with a real trumpet or through these "libs" in musical context)
most of these libs require reverbs and some EQ, but saying trumpets are the Achilles heel, is not the case for all libraries.
Click to expand...
I used sample modeling trumpet for years. And, nah, EQ and reverb does not substitute for good tone quality recorded in a great room. Also, the fake vibrato has its limits.

I don't know Birth of the Trumpet but it seems like it's along the same lines as sample modeling. Maybe good in a limited context but not good enough to cover most orchestral context without A LOT of work and varying results.

The proof of course is the audio example.

This is as good as I've heard Sample Modeling and I shutter to think of the amount of time it took to get this and even it is thin, out of tune and has a small and raspy sound lacking depth. But, hats off to who did this for at least getting it this good.

 
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RogiervG said:
No sure i follow you?
I you are reacting to my "hard to make out if it's played with a real trumpet or through these "libs" in musical context)" I meant the melody/motive that is recorded.
Click to expand...
I didn’t see that coming. Thanks for explaining.
RogiervG said:
For many listeners (even musicians), it's very hard to differentiate the midi/library versions by these libs vs it (melody/motive) being performed by on a real trumpet.
Click to expand...
Yea I agree with that.
RogiervG said:
Modelling IS different indeed, yet, Sample modeling uses samples underneath (albeit very short samples, on which they do add synthesis and whatnot)
Click to expand...
Synthesis? As in……
 
InsomniaEmperor said:
Aight it's demo time.

As mentioned above, I'm having a hard time getting the VSL cornet library to sound good when it's playing fast articulations.

Here's the part of the mock-up where it's slow. I think the cornet section fits right in with its mellow sound.

View attachment Slow Demo.mp3

Now here's the part I can't seem to get right. The cornets sound a bit too puny and lack that oomph, or is that how cornets are normally supposed to sound? I tried running the part on Berlin Brass but it then becomes too punchy.

View attachment Fast Demo.mp3


I keep going back and forth with VMS for a good reason. It sounds fantastic yes but the fact that their demos are all slow and lyrical has me wary since maybe that's all they'd sound fantastic on then they'd fall apart if I try to play fast runs or fast shorts with them. I was thinking maybe something more flexible like Berlin Strings or VSL VI Orchestral Strings would make me less likely to go look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Well, you maybe right but the mock-up is actually nice. Did a good job. On the other hand, where did you get a cymbal work like that? I like it. What library did you use? Oh btw, what is piece again?
 
VSriHarsha said:
Well, you maybe right but the mock-up is actually nice. Did a good job. On the other hand, where did you get a cymbal work like that? I like it. What library did you use? Oh btw, what is piece again?
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Thanks. The piece is Transcendent Journey by Rossano Galante. Here's a live recording. I'm trying to get my cornets to sound as close to a live recording as possible but it's hard.



The cymbals I used were from VSL VI Percussion. Took me a bit of tweaking with Berlin Studio to get it to sound right since it doesn't sound good out of the box. The VI Percussion seems underrated and doesn't seem to be as popular as other percussion libraries like Cineperc, Berlin Percussion, and Spitfire Percussion but you have a lot of different choices for cymbals, piatti, and tam-tam and all sorts of hits and techniques.
 
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