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Sonuscore - THE SCORE

I understand clearly.
I'm the one who's wrong, because I thought that by "engine" you were referring to the possibilities of generating midi patterns. And I had misunderstood that for generating midi patterns, OC3 was superior to TS.

That is, my point is that while in TS you could make a complete story inside the box, in OC3 this was not possible, but the possibilities of generating midi patterns were superior.
I don’t think TOC generates midi much differently than TS. It just has more detailed instruments and articulations available. That might be an advantage on some workflows, but not for mine, and I have other tools that can do similar things with whatever library I want so it it doesn’t generally help me out. I don’t have anything that works like TS. I mean I could build a set of patches that does something similar but it wouldn’t flow very well so it wouldn’t allow for the sort of framework sketching that I can do fairly fluidly with TS.
 
It depends on what you are referring to when you speak of generating MIDI patterns. But I would say The Score is far superior here.

When it comes to generating actual MIDI data (to be used in the DAW or other software that can import MIDI files)... have you taken a look at the three different ways of exporting MIDI that The Score offers?



To name just a few differences:
- In TOC3 you have only one type of MIDI export
- You can't include key switches in the exported MIDI patterns in TOC3
- You can't embed editable modwheel automation in the generated MIDI in TOC3
- You can't have instruments that only start playing or vary their patterns in upper MW ranges in TOC3
- and more much :)

I apologize for being so stubborn hahaha, I swear I want to understand the difference between both libraries in terms of patterns.
I know that TS has a chord engine (fixed, not very wide), and I understand that OC3 does not have a chord engine.
But as for the OC3 arpeggiator, I see it superior to the TS arpeggiator.
Here I have the keys illuminated with the arpeggiator of both. The largest corresponds to OC3, and the smallest corresponds to TS.
I know this is very easy to understand, but I am quite stubborn HAHAHAHA. But I see that OC3 has enough free keys, not tied to a chord, to generate midi patterns.
Is that so? Or are the possibilities of the TS arpeggiator superior? Am I missing something?

OC3. 1.jpg 20231112_164553.jpg

TS
2.jpg 20231112_164533.jpg
 
Broad.
I understand that the TS arpeggiator is subject, and fixed, to the chords generated by TS.
But in OC3, the arpeggiator is "free", and one can generate arpeggiated chords without being constrained, as I understand TS to be.
Is that so?
 
I apologize for being so stubborn hahaha, I swear I want to understand the difference between both libraries in terms of patterns.
I know that TS has a chord engine (fixed, not very wide), and I understand that OC3 does not have a chord engine.
But as for the OC3 arpeggiator, I see it superior to the TS arpeggiator.
Here I have the keys illuminated with the arpeggiator of both. The largest corresponds to OC3, and the smallest corresponds to TS.
I know this is very easy to understand, but I am quite stubborn HAHAHAHA. But I see that OC3 has enough free keys, not tied to a chord, to generate midi patterns.
Is that so? Or are the possibilities of the TS arpeggiator superior? Am I missing something?

OC3. 1.jpg 20231112_164553.jpg

TS
2.jpg 20231112_164533.jpg
TS responds to any keys between Ab2 and C9 (using C4 as middle C). Most instruments are not set to respond that high but you can displace midi assignments by octaves if you want. Some instruments go lower as well but can only be accessed by reassigning the octave to sound lower than played.

One major recommendation I would have for Sonuscore is allowing the user to reassign the keyswitches to different locations. Ab2 is generally way too high. I know the assignment was most likely made with the idea of a 61 note keyboard in mind, but there’s really no good reason for their assignments to be fixed in this way.
 
Broad.
I understand that the TS arpeggiator is subject, and fixed, to the chords generated by TS.
But in OC3, the arpeggiator is "free", and one can generate arpeggiated chords without being constrained, as I understand TS to be.
Is that so?
No, TS is not constrained at all except where the keyswitches are located. Chord mode is restricted but that’s due to its peculiar methodology not because of how the TS arpeggiator is set up.

With TS you hold down whatever notes you want and each slot’s arpeggiator will respond according to the conditions you set fir the slot. Go read again my explanations above on how the engine works.
 
No, TS is not constrained at all except where the keyswitches are located. Chord mode is restricted but that’s due to its peculiar methodology not because of how the TS arpeggiator is set up.

With TS you hold down whatever notes you want and each slot’s arpeggiator will respond according to the conditions you set fir the slot. Go read again my explanations above on how the engine works.

There I read your tutorial again. And while I was at it, I tried other things in TS and OC3.
The bottom line is that they are both VERY complicated. As we say in Spanish: "A lot of Gre Gre to say "Gregorio".
By God, they had to complicate it so much.
For example, I took a story, and I realized that the sequencer for the Cello, was linked to a harp, that means that if I remove the harp, the cello will not respond to the keys that it was supposed to respond to.
The envelopes are tedious, and the octave steps (those little dots below the envelopes) are a nuisance.
You have to have a lot of music theory to undertake a task with these sequencers.
Other arpeggiators, sequencers, are much easier and INTUITIVE (here is the key), than the sequencers in these two libraries.
If you are guided by intuition, the program will laugh at you.
I still have to understand how I can activate the steps by octaves, I don't understand where the blessed button is that allows me to edit the steps by octaves (those little dots below the envelopes).
It's actually easier to start with a story, mute what I don't like and... and I can't even delete an instrument that I don't like, because by doing this, I would eliminate the arpeggio that not only controls the instrument that I delete , but any other instrument dependent on this arpeggio.

For example, I opened the story Across The Field.
If I'm only interested in playing the cello, I have to mute several instruments, because if I delete the wrong one (in this case, the harp), the cello will not respond to the keys or the arpeggiator. The cello, in this case depends on the harp sequencer.

Please take this test. Load this story "Across The Field", and remove all the instruments except the harp and cello. Now remove the harp and keep the cello and you will understand my frustration.
The stories are supposed to be built with each instrument independent of the other, so that in the event that I want to take, for example, an electric guitar and use that arpeggio, and only that arpeggio and its corresponding chord, I can do it without having to depend on another instrument linked by the same arpeggio, chord, or a mixture of both.
I mean, I can understand that in the name of practicality it has been done that way, but that practicality is divorced from the intuition and ease of use that one intuitively assumes.

2.jpg 2.jpg


In these images you can see the harp and cello.
What happens when I remove the harp?
Well, here I put two screenshots of my keyboard. The keys that allowed me to go through the octaves with the cello and the harp now go out.
And the funny thing is that if I modify the arpeggio by eliminating the harp, there are keys that I can play outside of the register. In other words, the cello responds to keys that are not supposed to respond because my keyboard tells me that that's where the playable keys end.

20231112_190651.jpg

20231112_190712.jpg
 
For example, I took a story, and I realized that the sequencer for the Cello, was linked to a harp, that means that if I remove the harp, the cello will not respond to the keys that it was supposed to respond to.
I don't see how this is possible.

Please take this test. Load this story "Across The Field", and remove all the instruments except the harp and cello. Now remove the harp and keep the cello and you will understand my frustration.
I can delete the harp fine, and the cellos play fine. Did you check to see that your modwheel was up to get the sound from the cellos?

I didn't try deleting all the instruments except the cello and harp, but deleting the harp had no effect on the cello. I did have to turn the modwheel up nearly to the top though to hear the cello.

The envelopes are tedious, and the octave steps (those little dots below the envelopes) are a nuisance.
Those aren't octave steps, they are positions in whatever notes the midi is triggering, starting from the lowest note. so if you hold down a C major triad—C-E-G with C on middle C, 0 is middle C, -1 is the G below middle C, and -2 is E below that, etc, and 1 is E above middle C, 2 is G above that and so forth. The dots will trigger octaves only if you hold down only one note, you hold down an octave, or you designate the slot respond only to a single note (such as lowest, middle, or top).

No disagreement though that programming a story preset, even tweaking one, can be tedious, at least in part because there is no undo.

You have to have a lot of music theory to undertake a task with these sequencers.
I don't think it requires much music theory, but it does require understanding something about how orchestras are usually put together as well as a good compositional sensibility. They certainly don't write themselves, no matter what the Sonuscore marketing might have you believe. But that's true for the Orchestrator with Hollywood Orchestra and the engine with TOC as well.

Other arpeggiators, sequencers, are much easier and INTUITIVE (here is the key), than the sequencers in these two libraries.
I don't think these are difficult to understand. The manual is not good, that is true, and Sonuscore needs to get a video out on the sequencer functionality pronto. It's really a poor oversight that this wasn't available on release given that the manual is so poorly done. But if you understand how sequencers generally work, and especially how the Kontakt sequencer works, there is nothing surprising about how the sequencers and envelopes in TS work. I would say that most of the issues with TS stem from limitations of the Kontakt sequencer to be able to select which notes a slot will respond to. You can use the grid to overcome that to some extent, but that only works for shorts. Longs are still inherently limited as to what they can respond to.

The stories are supposed to be built with each instrument independent of the other, so that in the event that I want to take, for example, an electric guitar and use that arpeggio, and only that arpeggio and its corresponding chord, I can do it without having to depend on another instrument linked by the same arpeggio, chord, or a mixture of both.
I'm not understanding what you want to do here. If you are trying to copy an instrument from one preset to another, I haven't tried that so I don't even know if that is possible.

From your pictures you seem to be using the functionality to map to the lights of the KK keyboard. I don't know if you are going straight from K7 to the keyboard or running through the Komplete Kontrol software. I never use the latter except to design keyboard presets on my keyboard, and I haven't tested the K7 functionality, but I seem to recall it doesn't work on my keyboard (a mk2). But as you can probably guess, I don't use the guidelights for what they are designed for because I don't find them all that helpful to be honest, though I like them because they look pretty.

In any case if your cello is not responding it's likely due to the modwheel being down too far or because you are playing out of range for how the cello is set to respond.
 
I can delete the harp fine, and the cellos play fine. Did you check to see that your modwheel was up to get the sound from the cellos?

Nop. Good point.

Those aren't octave steps, they are positions in whatever notes the midi is triggering, starting from the lowest note. so if you hold down a C major triad—C-E-G with C on middle C, 0 is middle C, -1 is the G below middle C, and -2 is E below that, etc, and 1 is E above middle C, 2 is G above that and so forth. The dots will trigger octaves only if you hold down only one note, you hold down an octave, or you designate the slot respond only to a single note (such as lowest, middle, or top).

Yes, silly of me. I expressed wrong.

I'm not understanding what you want to do here. If you are trying to copy an instrument from one preset to another, I haven't tried that so I don't even know if that is possible.
I mean. I open a story. Of all the instruments that participate in the story, I am only interested in the guitar (or any other instrument), because it has a striking riff. So, since I'm only interested in that riff to export its midi, I have to delete all the instruments that I'm not interested in. And here comes the question that I explained before. That riff (it's an example, it may not behave this way in another story. But it's something that happened to me with the aforementioned story, and with the indicated instruments) stops working because it is linked to another instrument, and both depend of an arpeggio. I mean that the arpeggio that works with both instruments, when removing one of these instruments, the arpeggio disappears for the other mentioned instrument.
Two instruments, one arpeggio. Deleting one of the instruments, the arpeggio for the remaining instrument no longer works.
The lights told me which keys were active for both instruments, and both the cello and the harp worked along the keyboard. With the harp removed, the cello no longer responds as it did before removing the harp.
But from your explanation, this could be due to the way the stories were created, and is not a problem in itself.

I don't use the guidelights for what they are designed for because I don't find them all that helpful to be honest, though I like them because they look pretty.

😂😂😂😂
 
I mean. I open a story. Of all the instruments that participate in the story, I am only interested in the guitar (or any other instrument), because it has a striking riff. So, since I'm only interested in that riff to export its midi, I have to delete all the instruments that I'm not interested in. And here comes the question that I explained before. That riff (it's an example, it may not behave this way in another story. But it's something that happened to me with the aforementioned story, and with the indicated instruments) stops working because it is linked to another instrument, and both depend of an arpeggio. I mean that the arpeggio that works with both instruments, when removing one of these instruments, the arpeggio disappears for the other mentioned instrument.
Two instruments, one arpeggio. Deleting one of the instruments, the arpeggio for the remaining instrument no longer works.
I don’t get this behavior. It’s true that things might not sound if an arpeggiation is programmed to pass from one instrument to another. But that’s a function of how the arpeggiation is programmed for each instrument, not because the instruments are linked. And there shouldn’t be a difference between what happens when an instrument is muted versus deleted. At least there’s no difference for me. I don’t understand why it would be happening for you.
 
I thought the post from @jbuhler about creating a preset for the opening of The Matrix was an interesting idea, so I've made an attempt at it.
Here is an overview of my approach, the problems I've met and some potential solutions.
I'll try to stick to an overview and keep this post (semi-)manageable, but will hopefully follow up with some further details in separate posts.

I attach, for those interested, the user preset file 'The Faketrix (132).nka' and a MIDI file with the data to drive the preset.
Simply place the .nka file in the 'Ensemble User Data' directory at the location where you installed your 'The Score' library files.

Reference Track for The Faketrix
My first step was to come up with some reference MIDI/tracks to use as a target for what I was trying to achieve.
Now I don't have the score for The Matrix, so I've tried to cobble together something as close as possible based on the original post, the low resolution sample page of the Omni Publishing Score and the original Soundtrack recording.
I split the parts into ten tracks using the single instruments from The Score - I'm not using the Ensemble instrument yet, although I did select single instruments available in the Ensemble with the aim of turning each track into a slot in the Ensemble instrument.
(I had trouble with balancing things, especially the Low Woodwinds, because the individual The Score instruments seem to be stuck at quite a high volume/dynamic level. Despite about a million options for FX, there doesn't seem to be any mixer controls for the individual instruments and it doesn't help that it keeps resetting the Kontakt output volume to default.)
I ended up with the following, which I thought was more or less passable:
View attachment The Faketrix - Target.mp3

(BTW, the intro of the Brass is purposefully delayed by a couple of bars to make it easier to hear what the other instruments are doing in the background.)

The Faketrix - Target MIDI.png

This basically consists of the following:
- Clarinet & Bass Clarinet parts assigned to Low WW Staccato (and simplified the harmony a little to make life easier).
- The French Horns assigned to Big Horn Sustain
- The Trumpets to High Brass Sustain
- Timpani doing a low roll
- I've split the original Harp and 2 Piano parts across Harp, Marimba and (Grand) Piano
(You can't use any instrument in more than one slot in the Ensemble.
I could have used the Grand Piano and the Piano, but I thought I'd try the Marimba instead.
Since the Marimba doesn't have the range to replace the Piano, the Marimba is doing the Harp part while the Harp is then doing one of the Piano parts.)
- Violins I and II are High Strings Sustain
- Both Viola parts are High Strings Staccato (and simplified the harmony again)
- Celli and Basses are on Low Strings Sustain

Formulating a Chord Scheme
The next stage is to formulate a chord scheme which we can use to program the Ensemble instrument into producing something like the reference MIDI.
That is to say, working out what notes we need to press to get the MIDI output (from the Ensemble instrument) that matches what we produced earlier.
I think the goal here is probably to keep the chord scheme as simple as possible while still being able to access the notes required.
When designing a preset of any reasonable level of complexity, I think there is a danger in over-engineering the system such that you can get the desired output but only through the use of a very particular combination of input - playing the preset with any other input will then produce strange and undesirable results.
Keeping the chord scheme fairly simple will hopefully make the preset more robust and forgiving, or, if not, then at least it should make it easier to play without completely breaking the effect you are trying to achieve.

If I understood him correctly, @jbuhler was expressing some concern in his original post about the ability to provide the input such that he would be playing in the correct register for the given instruments.
To my mind, the chord scheme is largely independent from the output MIDI and what is critical is to be able to isolate the particular note values (i.e. C, F#) rather than the particular notes (i.e. C3, F#5).
Once you have access to the particular note values that you want, you should then be able to offset them to the correct register for a given instrument using that instrument's Octave offset setting.
(Of course you may still run into issues, particularly with the Envelope module, with note groupings not coming in the desired order/placement, as with the High Strings Sustain.)

To give a concrete example which will hopefully make sense of this, I settled on the notes E2-C3-E3-G3-B3 as the desired input:
The Faketrix - Input MIDI.png
(The C1-F1 notes in the MIDI are triggering the preset stage keyswitches.)

This note input enables us to get the following:
- E2-G2-B2 for the Low WW Staccato using Top 3 note selection with -1 Octave
- E3-G3-B3 for the Horn Sustain using Top 3
- the alternating E-B run for Harp/Marimba/Piano using Lowest + Highest in the Sequencer
- E3-B4 for the High String Sustain using Lowest + Highest with +1 Octave
(actually we wanted E4-B4, but I settled for E3-B4)
- B2-E3-G3-B3 for the High String Staccato using Top 3 in the Sequencer
- E1 for the Low String Sustain using Lowest with -1 Octave
(ideally would have wanted E0-E1, but settled for E1 only)

This gets us most of what we want, with the notable exception of the High Brass Sustain (more on that shortly), with a relatively simple chord structure.
The notes are certainly fairly prescribed and we won't get quite the right voicings/effect with other variations.
However, we can generate the entire track using only those five notes and without having to shift around chords between preset stages, so I'm calling that a success.
 

Attachments

  • The Faketrix.zip
    3.7 KB · Views: 5
The 2 Main Issues for The Faketrix, and 2 Shortcomings of The Score
There are two main issues that I faced in turning this into a working preset.
I hope to look at these in more detail in future posts, so I'll just cover them briefly for now.

The first issue is that we can't get the C-E-G triad we want for the High Brass Sustain.
This is really a combination of two shortcomings that I hope Sonuscore might be able to address:

1) Despite the wealth of note selection options for the chord filtering, it can still be quite hard to get exactly what you want.
The particular issue here is that we only have one option that returns a triad, Top 3, but we need to get both a E-G-B triad and a C-E-G triad at the same time (for different instruments).
For short notes, the sequencer gives a little more flexibility on note choice, particularly when combined with the chord filtering.
However, long notes can only use the Envelope and you are limited to just the chord filtering options available.
Given we are already verging on too many options for the note selection, and some of those are quite ambiguous, I don't think additional static choices is the best solution here.
Ideally what we would have is just a couple of common options, such a Lowest, Lowest 2, Top, Top 2, Lowest + Highest and then provide a Custom option that works in a similar way to the sequencer.
This would let you choose which notes were filtered out and which notes were allowed through.
For bonus points, it could also let you Octave offset individual notes rather than just the overall grouping, which would allow you to alter voicings.

Returning specifically to our C-E-G triad for High Brass Sustain, as things currently stand, you could potentially try to assemble the triad you want across multiple slots, but this would then hit the next problem...

2) You can't have the same instrument in multiple slots (by which I really mean instrument & articulation combination).
This was less of an issue with TOC where you only had 5 slots and a couple of envelopes to work with, so adding extra instances is not felt so keenly.
However, The Score is structured around trying to do a lot with a single instance using 10 slots.
Add to that the fact The Score is using High/Low Ensembles for the Orchestral Sections, rather than instrument sections, and it is quite easy to find you don't have the flexibility you would like.

The second issue in producing the preset was that I couldn't get the range I wanted for the Piano runs, even though I had access to the notes I wanted.
This is effectively the same two shortcomings again, but in a slightly different form.

Workarounds
To work around the first issue (C-E-G triad), I used Lowest 2 to produce E4-C5 in the High Brass Sustain.
I then tried to fill in the missing parts of the chord by using the sequencer to play C4-E4-G4 on High Brass Marcato.
Since I needed another slot for the High Brass Marcato, I removed the Timpani.

To work around the second issue (Piano runs), I decided to split a single Piano run across Piano, Marimba and Harp slots so you still receive the overall effect of the full run.


Revised MIDI and Preset
These changes lead to the revised target MIDI:
The Faketrix - Revised Target MIDI.png

From this and the Chord scheme, I was able to build out the complete preset:
View attachment The Faketrix - Result.mp3


The Faketrix - Instruments 1-5.png The Faketrix - Instruments 6-10.png

The Faketrix - Main B - IN 1-5 - Bar 1.png The Faketrix - Main B - IN 1-5 - Bar 2.png

The Faketrix - Main B - IN 6-10 - Bar 1.png

(Bar 2 for instruments 6-10 is a repeat of Bar 1, so is not shown.)
This is showing the preset stage 'Main B' which is effectively the main chunk of the preset.
The stage 'Main A' is the lead in to 'Main B', which is basically identical but without the ramp down for the High Brass Sustain.
Similarly, the 'Outro' preset stage provides the final ramp down needed for the High Brass Sustain and fades everything out.
The preset stage 'Intro' is a quieter version of Main A/B without the Horn/High Brass Sustains.

EDIT: Was able to resolve the following with very careful editing of the note starts in the MIDI
I say "without" the Horn/High Brass Sustains, although you can probably hear a couple of Brassy blips in the first few bars.
This is both the Big Horn Sustain and High Brass Sustain sounding very briefly (at the start of a preset stage) before being cutoff.
I wasn't able to get it to stop doing this, even though both Sustains should be deactivated, so I'm assuming this is a bug.
 
Last edited:
I thought the post from @jbuhler about creating a preset for the opening of The Matrix was an interesting idea, so I've made an attempt at it.
Here is an overview of my approach, the problems I've met and some potential solutions.
I'll try to stick to an overview and keep this post (semi-)manageable, but will hopefully follow up with some further details in separate posts.

I attach, for those interested, the user preset file 'The Faketrix (132).nka' and a MIDI file with the data to drive the preset.
Simply place the .nka file in the 'Ensemble User Data' directory at the location where you installed your 'The Score' library files.

Reference Track for The Faketrix
My first step was to come up with some reference MIDI/tracks to use as a target for what I was trying to achieve.
Now I don't have the score for The Matrix, so I've tried to cobble together something as close as possible based on the original post, the low resolution sample page of the Omni Publishing Score and the original Soundtrack recording.
I split the parts into ten tracks using the single instruments from The Score - I'm not using the Ensemble instrument yet, although I did select single instruments available in the Ensemble with the aim of turning each track into a slot in the Ensemble instrument.
(I had trouble with balancing things, especially the Low Woodwinds, because the individual The Score instruments seem to be stuck at quite a high volume/dynamic level. Despite about a million options for FX, there doesn't seem to be any mixer controls for the individual instruments and it doesn't help that it keeps resetting the Kontakt output volume to default.)
I ended up with the following, which I thought was more or less passable:
View attachment The Faketrix - Target.mp3

(BTW, the intro of the Brass is purposefully delayed by a couple of bars to make it easier to hear what the other instruments are doing in the background.)

The Faketrix - Target MIDI.png

This basically consists of the following:
- Clarinet & Bass Clarinet parts assigned to Low WW Staccato (and simplified the harmony a little to make life easier).
- The French Horns assigned to Big Horn Sustain
- The Trumpets to High Brass Sustain
- Timpani doing a low roll
- I've split the original Harp and 2 Piano parts across Harp, Marimba and (Grand) Piano
(You can't use any instrument in more than one slot in the Ensemble.
I could have used the Grand Piano and the Piano, but I thought I'd try the Marimba instead.
Since the Marimba doesn't have the range to replace the Piano, the Marimba is doing the Harp part while the Harp is then doing one of the Piano parts.)
- Violins I and II are High Strings Sustain
- Both Viola parts are High Strings Staccato (and simplified the harmony again)
- Celli and Basses are on Low Strings Sustain

Formulating a Chord Scheme
The next stage is to formulate a chord scheme which we can use to program the Ensemble instrument into producing something like the reference MIDI.
That is to say, working out what notes we need to press to get the MIDI output (from the Ensemble instrument) that matches what we produced earlier.
I think the goal here is probably to keep the chord scheme as simple as possible while still being able to access the notes required.
When designing a preset of any reasonable level of complexity, I think there is a danger in over-engineering the system such that you can get the desired output but only through the use of a very particular combination of input - playing the preset with any other input will then produce strange and undesirable results.
Keeping the chord scheme fairly simple will hopefully make the preset more robust and forgiving, or, if not, then at least it should make it easier to play without completely breaking the effect you are trying to achieve.

If I understood him correctly, @jbuhler was expressing some concern in his original post about the ability to provide the input such that he would be playing in the correct register for the given instruments.
To my mind, the chord scheme is largely independent from the output MIDI and what is critical is to be able to isolate the particular note values (i.e. C, F#) rather than the particular notes (i.e. C3, F#5).
Once you have access to the particular note values that you want, you should then be able to offset them to the correct register for a given instrument using that instrument's Octave offset setting.
(Of course you may still run into issues, particularly with the Envelope module, with note groupings not coming in the desired order/placement, as with the High Strings Sustain.)

To give a concrete example which will hopefully make sense of this, I settled on the notes E2-C3-E3-G3-B3 as the desired input:
The Faketrix - Input MIDI.png
(The C1-F1 notes in the MIDI are triggering the preset stage keyswitches.)

This note input enables us to get the following:
- E2-G2-B2 for the Low WW Staccato using Top 3 note selection with -1 Octave
- E3-G3-B3 for the Horn Sustain using Top 3
- the alternating E-B run for Harp/Marimba/Piano using Lowest + Highest in the Sequencer
- E3-B4 for the High String Sustain using Lowest + Highest with +1 Octave
(actually we wanted E4-B4, but I settled for E3-B4)
- B2-E3-G3-B3 for the High String Staccato using Top 3 in the Sequencer
- E1 for the Low String Sustain using Lowest with -1 Octave
(ideally would have wanted E0-E1, but settled for E1 only)

This gets us most of what we want, with the notable exception of the High Brass Sustain (more on that shortly), with a relatively simple chord structure.
The notes are certainly fairly prescribed and we won't get quite the right voicings/effect with other variations.
However, we can generate the entire track using only those five notes and without having to shift around chords between preset stages, so I'm calling that a success.
Thanks for doing this. I’ll take a look at it later tonight when I’m back at my computer.
 
I thought the post from @jbuhler about creating a preset for the opening of The Matrix was an interesting idea, so I've made an attempt at it.
Here is an overview of my approach, the problems I've met and some potential solutions.
I'll try to stick to an overview and keep this post (semi-)manageable, but will hopefully follow up with some further details in separate posts.
You definitely got the vibe on this. That was the idea, of course, not to replicate the patch verbatim, but to be able to get a sense of the sound, so you could then adapt your own material to it.

If I understood him correctly, @jbuhler was expressing some concern in his original post about the ability to provide the input such that he would be playing in the correct register for the given instruments.
Yes, sort of. It's more that because of how the sequencer works it's difficult to specify notes for instruments playing in the middle range. So it's not so much correct register as it is being able to say: high brass play these notes even while the violins are playing above them and the low strings and woodwinds are playing below. The options for sustains are middle and middle 2. There are more options for shorts because of how the sequencer grid works. You cover thoroughly the issues i was concerned with in the second post.

When designing a preset of any reasonable level of complexity, I think there is a danger in over-engineering the system such that you can get the desired output but only through the use of a very particular combination of input - playing the preset with any other input will then produce strange and undesirable results.
Yup, this is definitely an important consideration, and we're going for the overall vibe not any of the exact particulars. The difficulty is the sustains in the middle register with other stuff happening above and below. While the particulars of that stuff is not especially important, that there is something going on in both registers is important to the vibe. But you also can't just get rid of the stuff in the middle. Indeed, the stuff in the middle is maybe the most distinctive element of the sound. That's the challenge.

The clever thing you did, as you discuss in the second post, was use the lowest two notes to grab the pitches for the high brass and transpose them up a couple of octaves. You then used he top 3 notes for the horns and the marcatos playing everything. This allows the for the sense of play between the two brass choirs. (I might have put the high brass on the upper 3 notes (so you can get the trumpets on the triad) without transposition and had the horns take the lowest two notes up an octave, playing an E minor triad in the left hand and a C major triad in the right, but @CG Smith's solution actually yields a trumpet sound that is more in line with the Matrix original.)

Ideally what we would have is just a couple of common options, such a Lowest, Lowest 2, Top, Top 2, Lowest + Highest and then provide a Custom option that works in a similar way to the sequencer.
This would let you choose which notes were filtered out and which notes were allowed through.
For bonus points, it could also let you Octave offset individual notes rather than just the overall grouping, which would allow you to alter voicings.
Yes, this would work. You might even use the first column of the grid (which is there but grayed out) to indicate which notes to trigger for the sustains.

And here is a quick sketch framework, using the Faketrix preset, tempo set to 108.

View attachment Faketrix Sketch Framework.mp3
 
Sounds good.
Were you having any issues with the Brass blipping at the start of the Intro and Main A preset stages?
I didn't notice anything there in your demo.
Not the issue you were having but I did have to trim the midi a bit to avoid what sounded like a misfire at the beginning of a new chord. Also avoiding a harsh release at the end of the two measure pattern also required trimming a sixteenth note or so from the midi.
 
Not the issue you were having but I did have to trim the midi a bit to avoid what sounded like a misfire at the beginning of a new chord. Also avoiding a harsh release at the end of the two measure pattern also required trimming a sixteenth note or so from the midi.
Thanks, after carefully tweaking the MIDI positions for a bit I was able to find a small window where it works correctly without a noticeable break.

Strange you don't have the same issue.
I keep coming across weird behaviour or problems when I've been working with things for a while but I can't replicate them in a new project.
Yesterday the MIDI output was flaking out on me and started randomly dropping notes after a couple of bars, but today it seems to be fine.
 
might have been a buffer issue. When you started up fresh again today the buffer(somewhere) was clean.....just a thought??
 
might have been a buffer issue. When you started up fresh again today the buffer(somewhere) was clean.....just a thought??
Maybe, not sure what is going on.
Makes it hard to work out what is a bug needing reporting though when I get different results in different projects.
 
Maybe, not sure what is going on.
Makes it hard to work out what is a bug needing reporting though when I get different results in different projects.
Yeah, I have an issue where parts of the GUI of The Score just stop showing up. Only a full restart of Logic will fix it. This happens with some frequency, and it's obviously a bug, but I haven't been able to isolate with any consistency to report it to Sonuscore, though I plan to take screen shots the next time it happens so I can at least document the behavior.
 
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