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What are the necessary steps in becoming a successful film composer.

The surveys is aimed at an active community of composers
Well for one its aimed a community of composers so the likelihood of anybody doing the survey is slim.

But you still have no idea of who is answering and what their knowledge or skill level is. I don't know what your professors at DIT consider good primary sources, but who knows. (I only know that because you posted it to Perspective too, and it was like "ugh, this again").

You do realize there's a sizable portion of the working industry reading here and on Perspective? If you're looking to make an impression on the industry, asking irritating survey questions that people have pointed out are obviously pointless is not exactly a top notch way to go about it. I mean, most of us get annoyed when car dealers and telemarketers ring with surveys...consider the effect and perhaps quit spamming the professional community with it.
 
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I'm not irritated in the slightest

So don't let him discourage you. He IS however probably defensive about a question or two asked, based on me triggering him in another thread for suggesting someone program midi drums instead of using canned loops.


So he might have personal problems with the questions you ask, effecting his outlook on wether or not this is a good place for the survey

(Yeah, I was attacked for telling a composer to write their own music - so quality of the sample pool might be a bit tainted)

A guided survey is unfortunately your best bet.

Asking successful people specifically, or asking them how much money they've made composing, as a metric for how useful the results are.

Hey man thanks for heads up and for the understanding i appreciate it, yeah i should have worded the questions more appropriately. I suppose its only fair to get some criticism. To be honest i was amazed how quickly this thread was turned on its head. In future i'll look elsewhere for any help, surprising though i always enjoy this community because their is not shortage of composers willing to give newbies advice, maybe i picked a bad day.


For the record, I don't feel qualified answering your servey, as I've never made a dime making music (by choice)
 
Mediocre talents like Mozart, Van Beethoven, Wagner, Debussy and so on needed lessons, but the kids nowadays are so smart, I guess they could become anything, from composers to theoretical physicists, without having to study. It's because of those wonderful computers. I wished I was born a couple of decades later. When I was a teenager, all you had to write music was some paper, a pencil and an old piano. And a brain of course.

Is this the right flight direction? :rofl:

lol. A couple decades later... or a few hundred years later when there's wars like Mars vs Earth/milky way vs andromeda. Pretty sure fighting and dying in space is a lot more fun.
 
Besides three guitar lessons, I am completely self-taught, and am a published composer for chamber and symphony orchestra, rock and metal, even country western (a genre I generally can't stand) and a couple of independent film trailers. I'm far from great, or even strikingly good, but I do okay.

Depends on how driven you are.
 
Besides three guitar lessons, I am completely self-taught, and am a published composer for chamber and symphony orchestra, rock and metal, even country western (a genre I generally can't stand) and a couple of independent film trailers. I'm far from great, or even strikingly good, but I do okay.

Depends on how driven you are.
Completely agree, i am
this is a point I'd like to make... when I picked up guitar at 16 I was flying at 17 and everyone called it talent... I called it 13 hours a day every day for 9 months. Knowledge is useless without the drive, and school isn't the ONLY way to get the knowledge. When I bought the college text book with my own money - before I took my 2nd class(went straight to AP and got straight 5s /flex) I didn't know anything about music 7 months before hand.(not even how many letters, lines in a staff) and I read the text book on the only vacation I've ever been on(me and my dad went out west, just to visit states) and cranked the example DVD in my cd player while I read it.

"self taught" doesn't always mean "i choose not to learn anything about music theory" - as must of my learning came from countless hours feeding my obsessions. however - as painful as harmonic dictation is, the payoff is enormous :)

I completely agree, i myself am a guitarist and have developed my own musicality from a young age which led me to somewhat of a career in the industry, i had somewhat of an understanding of principals of music because when your around other musicians you pick up real world experience, in my opinion this and transcribing is what can improve anyone's endeavor to be musical. Funny thing about theory, the more you know doesn't necessarily lead to better compositions, some times it can even bog you down when formulating ideas. Music came first before academics categorized it, i like Mike Verta's take on it, theory is a reversed engineered. Although having a understanding of theory can be great to communicate ideas between musicians.
 
Depends on how driven you are.

Completely agree with this. If you have the necessary motivation to figure it out on your own, you can. Some people have that motivation, and some even fare way better with that method than they would being taught by others. It helps if you already have something of a musical foundation to go on; starting from scratch on your own may be a little harder.

Doing it mostly under my own steam is just what worked for me, but obviously people are wired differently. It's definitely something to think very long and very hard about, to be sure of what approach is best for your brain.

By the way, Parsifal666, I rarely feel like I have enough of a personality on here to get involved in discussions, so thanks for making posts that are so often proxies for my own feelings, and sorry about the frequent "likes." ;)
 
The most important thing is PR: making puff pieces where you can humblebrag/convince everyone that pads, drones, and three note motifs are some huge musical achievement that has been conjured from some other realm. It's sales.

edit- I'm sort of exaggerating/being sarcastic of course. But you know...
 
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once you get more comfortable and it's second nature - it simply reinforces your ideas... when I come up with a melody and chord progression, I can already come up with variants both melodically and harmonically to change the mood... this is what john Williams is KING at. theory is simply a way of understanding HOW to get what you want out of your listener... and it is 100% based on reversed engineering... that's the funniest part... people wrote music by ear... a man by the name of J.S. Bach decided to start keeping tally of different pieces and patterns that people were drawn to, and how they effected the listener - and he proceeded to write formulas to reproduce these effects easier, and deeper understand them.

that was the birth of western music theory as we know it - and it's 100% based on reverse engineering... and when I make my music - I use my brain to reinforce my ears. and sometimes I use my brain to kick start my ears... i.e. making a chord progression with the brain - looping it and just listening until a melody comes to me...

and fair warning : this song is before I got any good sample libraries, and I never got to add drums - but you can hear very clearly where my ears and my brain worked together.

I really want to make a phrase jump from C# minor, to G minor... a dim 5th... that's the brain - setting a start point... now how do I make that "make sense"?

I go from c# to G#7(okay, so i-V7) and then I "resolve" the G#7 as if it were an augmented 6th, down to G - but I'll play minor instead... now if i play the same phrase in G, i'll end up on D major, which happens to also be the neopolitan of C#, so i take it to a ii(dimished in first inversion) to make it feel like a plagal cadence back to 1. that dim chord also shares the 7th of D major, so it fits as both a plagal cadence to C# - and as part of an implied dominant 7 of D major(containing both the 7th and the 3rd).

then later - i created a melody - and my brain REALLY wanted to continue the descending half step pattern at the end of each phrase - even though it would take me to a B natural - and my ears REALLY wanted A minor underneath it... so I'm sitting on an A minor 9th because my ears want it, and to make sense of it - i resorted back to trusty D major, as D would be an ascending 4th(something your ears expect) and the major would let me swing back to a C diminished to tie it back to C#.

so its constantly using both intuition and your brain - to create something special. and in the very same song i use the abrupt flat 5 chord changes to effect - because while i did make a chunk of it make sense, purposely making your listener feel chaos/danger/malice/anger/whatever is something you might also want to do... and making smooth shifts in tonality isn't the best way to bring out those emotions...

theory just helps me figure out how to use the paints effectively... i still choose the colors and what I'm painting.


Nice piece dude and a very analytical breakdown really enjoyable from both stances.:)
 
By doing what you love...

Here's an anecdote, parable, or Zen Tale, which pretty much sums it up:

A woodsman is cutting down trees in the forest with his ax, when suddenly a powerful animal with special powers appears before him. He immediately imagines how catching this animal could leave him with immense financial reward, so he tries to kill it with his ax.

He starts swinging his ax at the animal, but every time the ax seems to hit the animal it disappears and pops up in a different spot. He's only cutting thin air. The animal suddenly appears behind him. He swings at it with his ax, again to no avail. This keeps happening until finally, the woodsman gives up chasing it, and goes back to cutting trees.

He forgets about the rare animal. As soon as he swings at a tree, the blade of the ax slips off the wooden handle and flies into a random direction. He looks up and sees the ax has struck the animal, instantly killing it.​
 
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Why just a "Film" composer? Why not media composer instead (Film, Games, Television, Movie Trailers, Music libraries, Licensing Music, Commercial Advertising)?

I think the question is flawed. Do you realize how many people are essentially vying for only 12 ideal spots in the Hollywood Composing arena? And how wide the market is in other areas such as games & television?

On one hand it's absolutely okay to shoot for the stars. In the interim, however, particularly if you have a family, there are mouths to feed, bills to pay and mature decisions to be made regarding career. The key is to becoming a WHOLE composer - not just a film composer. The magic word is diversify. Which also means giving back by taking on students to show them the ropes - pass on the legacy sort of thing, volunteering at your local chamber of commerce, making sure you hit trade shows and keep your business contacts alive.
 
These questions really piss me off. By asking said question in a forum means you are not working. If you don't put in time and effort i.e., work, you will not be successful. Those who are successful have an intense, fierce work ethic. Stop over ANALyzing and get busy...
 
I am reading this forum instead of working, and you know what? It feels GREAT! Yes, it's true that it takes hard work to be successful, but there's no reason why one can't do reasearch on one's trade at the same time, chewing gum while walking.
 
Well at least on this forum the questions aren't as stupid and clear signs of procrastination as to what goes on at KVR...
 
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