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I've been in the trailer music industry for 11 years. Here's what they pay and how to get into it...

nortiks said:
As a side question, do people in your business consider a "mock up" to actually be a "deliverable-to-client finished product" that was done without a real orchestra and/or choir? I consider a "mock up" more in the industrial meaning of the term, which is to say a demonstration/development tool that is 100% distinct from the eventual finished product. But for all I know it may be that in your line of work, potential clients expect to be presented only finished products suitable for immediate production? No real need to know, but just curious since my time lurking here seems to indicate its used to describe a finished product.
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Very common nowadays that a mockup is the final product in trailer music. Not always, but definitely a lot of the time. I also think mockup is a bit of an outdated term - it implies that what you are making is a demo, and I think that line of thinking leads to many amateurs not quite reaching the pro standard in their productions. I see "mockups" delivered as final products everyday in film, TV, games, trailers, and more, and a lot of the time you probably wouldn't notice because the mockups are that good.

In my personal experience with trailers specifically, I have only ever recorded soloists for sweetening at most if the project called for it, but never a full ensemble. I do know people who have (I would not consider myself a trailer composer by trade, more so a composer whose duties sometimes include doing trailer music). I have a few friends at Audiomachine here in LA and I know that they tend to do a lot of live sessions for their albums. But again, I would say that you should treat everything with the assumption that it might not be recorded. If it is, it is a luxury. If not, your mockup should stand on its own as a final version.
 
SyMTiK said:
Very common nowadays that a mockup is the final product in trailer music. Not always, but definitely a lot of the time. I also think mockup is a bit of an outdated term - it implies that what you are making is a demo, and I think that line of thinking leads to many amateurs not quite reaching the pro standard in their productions. I see "mockups" delivered as final products everyday in film, TV, games, trailers, and more, and a lot of the time you probably wouldn't notice because the mockups are that good.
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That's what I surmised from lurking here. Interesting how a term can morph its meaning to specific contexts. Tell that definition (i.e. mockup is the final product) to an engineering group and you'd be laughed out of the room. Literally. But context 100% matters and it makes sense to me in context of music given that virtual production is an accepted end product.

Personally, if I were any good at composing, I'd focus on that and do my mockups in the more general sense (i.e. demonstration/development tool) and then farm out the "final mockup" to someone who focuses on getting realism right in the virtual world. Based on the numbers I've seen floating around here for people offering to do that, and the numbers in this thread for a winning project, it would be very cost effective. Composer has no need to buy a bunch of libraries and spend time learning them, the cut for the "final mockup" maker is only a percent or two of the project income. But lol, since I'm not going to be a composer, its just an observation and not something I'll ever take advantage of.
 
nortiks said:
That's what I surmised from lurking here. Interesting how a term can morph its meaning to specific contexts. Tell that definition (i.e. mockup is the final product) to an engineering group and you'd be laughed out of the room. Literally. But context 100% matters and it makes sense to me in context of music given that virtual production is an accepted end product.

Personally, if I were any good at composing, I'd focus on that and do my mockups in the more general sense (i.e. demonstration/development tool) and then farm out the "final mockup" to someone who focuses on getting realism right in the virtual world. Based on the numbers I've seen floating around here for people offering to do that, and the numbers in this thread for a winning project, it would be very cost effective. Composer has no need to buy a bunch of libraries and spend time learning them, the cut for the "final mockup" maker is only a percent or two of the project income. But lol, since I'm not going to be a composer, its just an observation and not something I'll ever take advantage of.
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Cue customization is becoming common. If you get a request to customize something they may expect it the same day, or next day (depending on when the publisher gets wind of it). It would be impossible to approve a customization, hire an orchestrator, and book an orchestra the same day/next day. Samples are the only option in those situations...

Some album cues may be recorded live, but these albums are planned a month or two (or more) in advance, and are becoming less common (IME at least).
 
yapa said:
YouTube came out with a new ad format a (long) while back that didn't allow you to click the "Skip" button until you waited 5 seconds. Marketing departments all over reacted to that by putting all the juicy parts of their trailer/ad within those 5 seconds, in hopes that the viewer would keep watching.


I think the link is incorrect because it's taking me to my personal uploads. Without having to listen, the answer is yes, your skills in just about anything can get to a point in which others will pay you a lot of money to do it. It really just depends on how much you love developing and exploring that skill. If you don't love doing it, you won't make a lot of money in the long term. If you do, sky's the limit.
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Fascinating - thanks for the information. I never knew that.
 
nortiks said:
That's what I surmised from lurking here. Interesting how a term can morph its meaning to specific contexts. Tell that definition (i.e. mockup is the final product) to an engineering group and you'd be laughed out of the room. Literally. But context 100% matters and it makes sense to me in context of music given that virtual production is an accepted end product.

Personally, if I were any good at composing, I'd focus on that and do my mockups in the more general sense (i.e. demonstration/development tool) and then farm out the "final mockup" to someone who focuses on getting realism right in the virtual world. Based on the numbers I've seen floating around here for people offering to do that, and the numbers in this thread for a winning project, it would be very cost effective. Composer has no need to buy a bunch of libraries and spend time learning them, the cut for the "final mockup" maker is only a percent or two of the project income. But lol, since I'm not going to be a composer, its just an observation and not something I'll ever take advantage of.
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A director in 2024 would laugh if you said “oh wait til we get the orchestra!” It needs to be damn near perfect. Especially if you want good jobs.
 
Fitz said:
A director in 2024 would laugh if you said “oh wait til we get the orchestra!” It needs to be damn near perfect. Especially if you want good jobs.
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That's what I gather. Hats off to you folks that can be successful in that sort of environment.
 
nortiks said:
That's what I gather. Hats off to you folks that can be successful in that sort of environment.
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I think a lot of journeyman composers would be surprised just how many samples make it into final films. Especially percussion. Nothing wrong with that imo. If it’s a good sound, who says it has to change?

I came up on shit samples and my stuff sucked. But I learned to use it well. That’s the best way to learn how to orchestrate and listen into a piece and make it sing well with whatever sample library you have lying around, not the newest 2024 legato library.
 
yapa said:
This list might be outdated (seems like pubs open and close all the time), but here's a bunch of names I collected a few years ago. The one I have experience with, fully trust, and know will have your back is in bold and has an asterisk.

A-List Music
APM Music
Atom
Audiomachine
Avalon
Avalon Zero
Brand X
C21FX
Cavalry
Chroma Music
Colossal Trailer Music
Complexities of Sound
Confidential Music
Dos Brains
Elephant Music
End Of Silence
Eon Sounds
Epic North
Epic Score
Epitome Music
Eternal Eclipse
Evolving Sound
Extreme Music
Fired Earth
Fringe Element
Full Tilt
Future World Music
Gargantuan
Ghostwriter
Giantapes
Glory, Oath & Blood
Gothic Storm
Grooveworx Trailers
Hi-Finesse
Immediate Music
Impact Music
Killer Tracks
Land of ADM
Last Sonic Frontier
Louder Productions
Mediahorse
Megatrax
MontageMX
Moon&Sun
Must Save Jane
Ninja Tracks
Pitch Hammer
Position Music
Posthaste Music
Posthouse Tuomi
Powers Music
Q-Factory
Really Slow Motion
RedCola
Rumble Head
Score a Score*
See Trailer Tracks
Sencit Music
Songs to Your Eyes
Sonic Symphony
Sons Of Pythagoras
The Hit House
The Secession
The Spiritual Machines
Theta Sound
Twelve Titans Music
Twisted Jukebox
Two Steps From Hell
Universal Trailer Series
Volta
X-Ray Dog
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Yapa, thanks for list! How would I find the best publisher for Romantic Comedy, more traditional orchestral stuff. I just want to weed out a lot of the hip-hop and hard core folks.
 
Ultimately, you have to be able to tell a short story within a 2:00-2:30 minute window of time. Doing that changed my entire approach to writing music and it became less of daunting task and an enjoyable challenge!
 
@yapa What are your go to libraries these days that you feel make achieving the high level of production easier? There's so many on the market these days, but few seem to "hit" out of the box - so do you tend to also have to do a lot of mixing?
 
ghostnote said:
Yes, availability is everything.

>Tought the other day to get a weekend off, just for me.
>Got a message on Friday for a custom Trailer for a AAA movie airing in 2024
>deadline was Sunday
>checked my mails on Monday

...
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I just don't understand this industry. In what world is it reasonable to be planning a film for years, and then give highly skilled creators two days notice over a weekend for delivery of critical components for the release?

Is it deliberate? Or are all films just that badly project managed?
 
ALittleNightMusic said:
@yapa What are your go to libraries these days that you feel make achieving the high level of production easier? There's so many on the market these days, but few seem to "hit" out of the box - so do you tend to also have to do a lot of mixing?
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I can tell you that Keepforests stuff tends to be in high use and there libraries are a great starting point to make trailer music. You can pretty much make an entire trailer using exclusively one Keepforest library. Devastator Breakout Pro in particular is great
 
Paul@Sydney said:
Is it deliberate? Or are all films just that badly project managed?
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This is quite common in the creative industries. The TV and film industries are specially brutal with deadlines. The pressure is immense and things rarely go according to plan.

Maybe they asked someone else to do the trailer music because the execs didn't like the first music so the agency needed to deliver a new version asap. Or maybe the first person disappeared and the deadline is Monday. Or they had to recut the trailer from scratch because the previous one(s) didn't work with test audiences so they want new music. Etc. And of course everything had to be finished yesterday.
 
Fitz said:
I think a lot of journeyman composers would be surprised just how many samples make it into final films. Especially percussion.
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Trailers seem to be using samples a lot. I can only stand checking trailers on Youtube for so long 'cause they all seem to be using the same percussion sounds :)
 
Paul@Sydney said:
I just don't understand this industry. In what world is it reasonable to be planning a film for years, and then give highly skilled creators two days notice over a weekend for delivery of critical components for the release?

Is it deliberate? Or are all films just that badly project managed?
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I can't say with absolute certainty what the exact answer is, but I can conceive of several reasons why trailer music usually seems like a last-minute fire drill...

Trailers are the responsibility of marketing folks, not the creatives who made the film. Trailer editors are dependent on receiving finished footage from the filmmakers before they can start putting a trailer together, and unless it's one of those early announcement trailers ("coming next Christmas..."), there's pressure to meet an impending release deadline that's been publicly announced and is immovable. If there were any unforeseen delays in completing the film, the marketing folks, and consequently the editors and composers, will be the ones who get squeezed for time.

Once the general concept of the trailer is determined, the editors need to get music ASAP because they need time to listen and evaluate all the music submissions, then work with the selected composer to make changes, and finally edit the music and footage together. They don't have the luxury of waiting around for weeks while composers create a magnum opus.

Trailer editors also mine music libraries for suitable tracks. That means if you're a composer wanting to submit an original composition for a trailer, you're competing against finished tracks that can be downloaded instantly. You have to work quickly if you want a chance at having your music considered.

If a trailerized pop song is used, which is increasingly common these days, the marketing folks need time to clear the rights to the song. So the quicker they can make the music selection, the sooner rights negotiations can start. And if the negotiatings are unsuccessful, there's going to be an even more intense scramble, with less available time, to find suitable music.

Movie trailers are a high stakes game, and there's no shortage of composers who are willing to work quickly and under extreme pressure for a shot at a big trailer payout. If this situation wasn't producing usable results, it would be changed. But as it stands, hundreds of trailers get made every year, with quality music created under extremely tight deadlines. It's simply the nature of the beast.
 
yapa said:
Hi Brian, the idea behind this is to:
  • Use Google to search which movies will be released in the next two years;
  • Write standalone music that sounds like it would fit one, two, or a few of those trailers;
  • Send that standalone music to a publisher/music library of your choosing and ask them if they would like to pitch it to the trailer houses working on those trailers.
Does that make sense? Basically, you're anticipating and preparing music for trailers that may need music in the future. The music library will like this because they'll see that you're thinking about how to serve their clients.
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This is goldmine @yapa! Thanks so much for sharing this info!!!

I would like to ask you when you say composing standalone music based on what you've seen that would be out in a few months do you mean single track(s) or a whole album?

It seems that production music is based on whole albums but if trailer houses or top-of-the-top trailer agencies can accept only a single track makes it interesting!
 
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