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Four Things Dorico Can't Do (That Sibelius Can)

ThomasS said:
I have six different fermatas, all assigned to a single key. Some prolong the note a bit, and leave a small gap, others have longer gaps or prolongation. I know them all by heart, hit a note and a single key and, without affecting the printed score, my playback is quite human sounding, together with tempo variation, accel, rall, rit, etc.
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Without taking up your time or hijacking (fermatas give me a headache in Sibelius 6) - how do you program their length - what menu? Ignore if too off topic.
 
ThomasS said:
The gap can be any length depending on how slow the tempo you write in the gap, but you will need to do this for all parts, and, of course, it requires 4 or 5 keystrokes and adjustments, so this is very slow compared to selecting the note and with a single key put in a customizable symbol for fermata, caesura, breath-mark, etc. which automatically does this all in one go.
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Yes, it is slower, but also more flexible. You don't alter notation if you edit playback in the editor, just make sure you select the “view playback”, unfortunately by default it's the other way around.
 
Dave Connor said:
(fermatas give me a headache in Sibelius 6) - how do you program their length - what menu?
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Play - Dictionary - Articulations will bring up the dialogue to customize fermatas (at least in my version.) You can use the three standard fermatas already set up (short, medium and long) and if you want more (as I do) you can program three more as "custom articulations" all with different settings. I suppose if you wanted more than six, you could also steal any other articulation you are not needing (and change its graphic) if you want to have a really big choice for expression.

BTW, in the other thread it has been noted that Dorico plans, as a matter of priority, to make these playback like Sibelius in future versions, so when that is available I will switch to Dorico.
 
Bollen said:
Yes, it is slower, but also more flexible. You don't alter notation if you edit playback in the editor, just make sure you select the “view playback”, unfortunately by default it's the other way around.
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Granted that there is greater flexibility, but nine times out of ten it is speed (rather than slower but more capable) that is needed. A single key-click is enough, since there are six possibilities anyway. But, as you say, since Dorico can do a lot more if you want to take the time, it will be very great when, as promised by Daniel, Dorico will have both the pre-programmed pauses in a single click or the ability to do things that Sibelius cannot do. It will go from being inferior (in this regard) to vastly superior, giving us the best of both worlds.
 
ThomasS said:
If you are talking about Fermatas (or is it Fermati?) than yes, there are three in both Sibelius and Dorico - short, medium and long.
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Sorry, I was kidding about Sibelius, Finale, and Dorico each being different tools with their own strengths.
 
PhilA said:
If only there was some way to customise the short cuts to your personal preference! The devs missed a trick there.
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Dorico does have the ability to customize keyboard shortcuts (as does Sibelius and Cubase and Synthezizer V.)

I've only had Dorico as a demo for a few days, because I'm evaluating it, but usually the first time I try a program I look for this feature and align all the keyboard shortcuts I like to the same ones I have in other programs. That way I have a unified set of commands that work the same in all programs, which makes it easier to switch between them. I don't think I'd ever like a program that doesn't allow customized shortcuts, because I'm an old dog too lazy to learn new tricks, but the Dorico "devs" did not "miss a trick" there.
 
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Thomas,

Sounds like you should stick with Sibelius, especially given your very specific workflow needs. Demos sound amazing, btw.

Regards,

Damon
 
sinkd said:
Sounds like you should stick with Sibelius, especially given your very specific workflow needs.
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Daniel Spreadbury from Dorico has said that both these features will be added to future versions, so I will stick with Sibelius a little while longer, but when Dorico catches up I will probably switch. All good for now.
 
That Synth-V Choir sounds incredible. I'm flabbergasted by this technology.

Regarding Dorico, my biggest peeve with it is how hard (or in fact impossible at least with the entry versions) to customize formatting. With Sibelius I enjoy that you can treat it like a design/publishing program and move things around very quickly. I'm a bit fussy about engraving aesthetics and creating specialized markings, and in the past when I tried Dorico I felt very restricted by it.

The plus side is, I get the impression it is under very active development, and Steinberg responds well to user feedback. I find it a joke that Avid is now selling subscriptions to Sibelius when it seems like they hardly work on it.
 
wing said:
I get the impression it [Dorico] is under very active development, and Steinberg responds well to user feedback. I find it a joke that Avid is now selling subscriptions to Sibelius when it seems like they hardly work on it.
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Yes, I have been checking out Dorico with every new version, and it is improving year by year. It can now do a ton of things that Sibelius can't, but there are still important things Sibelius can do that Dorico can't, which is why I posted in the first place. Daniel Spreadbury has said (on the Steinberg website) that two of my issues (no pause playback, and no lyrics in midi) are going to be added in future versions, so it is clear that Dorico, at the rate of its improvement over Sibelius, will induce me to switch in the future. It's close now, but still not quite there. Of course, few people are fond of Avid, and I have been a Steinberg user for more than 30 years (starting with Cubase on the Atari) so Dorico is in better hands as far as I'm concerned. Still, I will always miss the user-written manuscript plugins of Sibelius, and I don't think that will ever be included in Dorico.

wing said:
That Synth-V Choir sounds incredible. I'm flabbergasted by this technology.
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As far as the demos I posted using Synthesizer V, it is important to note that they were written in Sibelius, and could not - with any ease or speed - have been accomplished in the present version of Dorico, or even in native Synthesizer V. I've only had Synthesizer V for three months, and still learning to use it, but if anyone is interested in mocking up complex choral music with intelligible lyrics, I have already found it to be revolutionary. Many composers will be using it in the coming years, and more programs are likely to be developed in speech-singing synthesis. Therefore, Dorico, as well as DAWs, will eventually want to add features to easily integrate with this new technology that they may not have considered vital in the past.
 
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Dang it, This is all ThomasS 's fault :) !!!

I started reading this thread as I am slowing migrating from Sibelius to Dorico and I heard all the demos with Synth V...I had to grab it (picked up Synth V and Kevin for $98 on a Japanese website https://www.dlsite.com/soft/ by using the 30% off coupon).

So I grabbed an old Sibelius arrangement I did for a high school boys a cappellla group and threw it into Synth V. Very little tweaking and i got this:
View attachment Drive By Ruff v6 G# minor Mx2.mp3

I need to buy a bass voice!

Back to Sibelius for a while
 
Jimbo 88 said:
So I grabbed an old Sibelius arrangement I did for a high school boys a cappellla group and threw it into Synth V. Very little tweaking and i got this:
your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio

I need to buy a bass voice!
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That's great! And just with Kevin. I bought all the voices at once, so I never tried with just Kevin, but you can get a decent bass out of him by upping the gender (more manly) and lowering the tone shift. For that matter, if you change the tone of all the parts you can have the arrangement sound fuller because each "kevin" will be a different singer. Still, fantastic job and arrangement.
 
ThomasS said:
That's great! And just with Kevin. I bought all the voices at once, so I never tried with just Kevin, but you can get a decent bass out of him by upping the gender (more manly) and lowering the tone shift. For that matter, if you change the tone of all the parts you can have the arrangement sound fuller because each "kevin" will be a different singer. Still, fantastic job and arrangement.
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Thank you. Synth V is such a remarkable tool for me. I can hear now that some of the rhythm is not correct in the verse (not sure it would matter much in this case). As I guy who doesn't sing, this will allow me to hear clearly what I'm composing/arranging. Something i would not experience until it got in front of a singer...and then would be subject to their interpretation of the notation. That alone, is golden for me as a composer.

Thanks for the tips. I'm sure you experienced this also, I really have very little working knowledge of the program right now. So to get results this good is pretty amazing.

Arranging for students (especially like this situation, just boy singers) can be challenging. Limited ranges and very little rehearsal time availability to them. And this is just a hobby for most. I can now create practice mp3s so they can hear what the parts alone should sound like. The implications of this program are just astounding.
 
ThomasS said:
There is no program that can convincingly sing choral music as well (and intelligible) as Synthesizer V. Hollywood Choirs and other worldbuilder choral libraries are hard to understand, and take hours of time, whereas it takes a fraction of time in Synthesizer V, and the results are remarkable.
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@ThomasS it would be great to see a tutorial video of your SynthV integration in Sibelius! I've been using Sibelius for a long time and Synth V in Cubase but never the integration in Sibelius.
 
gwretling said:
@ThomasS it would be great to see a tutorial video of your SynthV integration in Sibelius! I've been using Sibelius for a long time and Synth V in Cubase but never the integration in Sibelius.
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Is Synth V Integrated in Sibelius or Exported from Sibelius into a DAW? I thought it was the latter.
 
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