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Help me love Vangelis

Pingu said:
Certain amount of irony there. I can't seem to find what it is people like in Vangelis, so I post about it. You personally can't see the point in my post, so you feel the need to post about it. But your pointless posting is somehow different?

I'm posting because I believe there must be something there that I'm not getting. Musicians sometimes enjoy huge followings for reasons that are more social than the art itself - as in Einaudi and Taylor Swift - but that tends to be fleeting. When someone has a career of decades, and is still receiving invites to write for NASA and major films at the tail end of it, it seems unlikely he was just in the right place at the right time. And since being guided in what people see in something can often lead to the light going on, and then a genuine change in tastes, I was quite sincerely asking what it is people love. My random stabs at sampling his work haven't been the best, but then there are the few tracks - such as Memories of Green, and the title track of Blade Runner - that I've loved all my life. So I'm reluctant to let go of the attempt, but also don't want to wade through everything.

So far some of the links have been very helpful.
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I was very happy about your post to be honest, cause I feel exactly the same about Vangelis. He might have had some good moments in film music, although the bad once outweighed the good by far IMHO. And the more I tried to listen to him, the more I noticed, that I think it‘s boring, tasteless and full of cliches. Sorry if this sounds harsh. So I was wondering too, why he is such a hero for so many here. Well, I did not get an answer yet !?!
 
Heinigoldstein said:
I was very happy about your post to be honest, cause I feel exactly the same about Vangelis. He might have had some good moments in film music, although the bad once outweighed the good by far IMHO. And the more I tried to listen to him, the more I noticed, that I think it‘s boring, tasteless and full of cliches. Sorry if this sounds harsh. So I was wondering too, why he is such a hero for so many here. Well, I did not get an answer yet !?!
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As far as I'm concerned he's not a hero, being a hero is something else... whether you like it or not, he's just as respectable as those who have 6 ghost writers. He has his style and it was another era.
 
I once had a director tell me he hates Vangelis because it feels like 80s new age music you'd hear in some old lounge or massage parlour– basically very cheesy.

I kind of see that point, though I'm a little more neutral. Some Vangelis such as the classic BR soundtrack is great and beautiful at times. But I can agree most of his work sounds dated and kinda corny. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge synth nerd, but I prefer to use them in a hybrid and modern sense. I personally find compositions using the orchestra and acoustic instruments to have more of a timeless beauty, perhaps the human feel and all. Vangelis' synth sounds are lush and awash with excessive reverb which is nice at first but also gives dystopian cyberpunk cliché vibes, so I would have a hard time calling it more beautiful than JW's music which to me is more timeless. I'm not even a JW fanboy either, I just think Vangelis is a bit overrated.
 
I was, er, serious when I quoted Monty Python with 'SPLUNGE!'

One wonders of the age-old debate between the Objectivity or Subjectivity of music.

Thanks though, since I've been meaning to listen to Aphrodity's Child for a while now. I might even make it through the 666 album in one sitting. Probably not though, who am I kidding?
 
dgburns said:
I was, er, serious when I quoted Monty Python with 'SPLUNGE!'

One wonders of the age-old debate between the Objectivity or Subjectivity of music.

Thanks though, since I've been meaning to listen to Aphrodity's Child for a while now. I might even make it through the 666 album in one sitting. Probably not though, who am I kidding?
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I actually listened to the Four Horseman last week... and 1492. Few musicians would discard him as cheesy or boring. That's subjective obviously. As someone with no formal music education, I was always inspired by his own creations to dive into >> sound << as the primary emotional palette.

His contribution is undeniable and comparing him to Williams or anyone is a mistake, imho.
 
I don't think one can really compare Vangelis and John Williams. Two completely different composers, two completely different backgrounds and two completely different histories. Vangelis was also an innovator when in came to using synthesizers in western rock and pop music. I think his records were up where with the likes of JMJ, Wakeman, and Larry Fast and others.

There was a great compilaiton which turned me onto his other solo records which I picked up by chance when I was a kid. Up until then, I had only known Bladerunner and Chariots.


I am a big fan of this music. Probably my favorite are Spiral, H&H, China, and Rosetta and many others. If the claim is that he is limited musically, I would probably suggest listening to Mythodea NASA album. Very complex music IMO. And of course very different than his 70s and 80s music.

Things that I like(ed) about Vangelis' scores? They were very different. Unique. Always thought provoking(to me at least). I still remember the scores for films like Missing and The Bounty. They stuck with you long after you left the theatre and the film. If anything, I think I probably remember the score to The Bounty better than I do the film itself.




If you don't like Vangelis, that's okay. Different people like different music and not everyone needs to agree on it. Its personal taste.
 
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wing said:
I once had a director tell me he hates Vangelis because it feels like 80s new age music you'd hear in some old lounge or massage parlour– basically very cheesy.
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Yeah but isn't that because all those new age guys ripped him off and so made that soundworld over-familiar very quickly?

For me Vangelis is a timbral/soundscape innovator allied to an unusual gift for earworm melody. Without him and John Carpenter, you don't get Hans Zimmer.
 
SupremeFist said:
Yeah but isn't that because all those new age guys ripped him off and so made that soundworld over-familiar very quickly?

For me Vangelis is a timbral/soundscape innovator allied to an unusual gift for earworm melody. Without him and John Carpenter, you don't get Hans Zimmer.
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Could be. He's also said the same about early Brian Eno but I disagree because I have a soft spot for Music for Airports even if it sounds akin to something you might hear while getting your back rubbed. This director also hates John Carpenter lol.

There's definitely a fine line with synths, especially lush string pads and later DX FM sounds which were overused by everyone in the 80s, and I think Vangelis' scores suffer from the trends of this time period as a whole. I mean "Love Theme" from Blade Runner is definitely a late night motel room soft-core porn shot with vaseline on the lens, lit-by-candlelight with rose petals on the bed vibe. Hard to say if it's because others copied this but I dunno, I kinda just think it is the instrumentation that makes it a bit cheesy regardless. The reverb is nice though 😂
 
creativeforge said:
I would not put Williams and Vangelis on a level. Williams writes his music for a full orchestra, on paper, and directs it. Vangelis IS the orchestra, a lot of the time, he relies a lot on spontaneous improvisation. If he doesn't feel the Muse is present, he will wait another day for it. And he has his own "sound palette" which he has developed himself. Very unique and addictive, I must say.

However to appreciate Vangelis in the soundtrack realm, I strongly recommend the sublime score for 1492 Conquest of Paradise. There is a world of music in this work. You probably can find it on Spotify of Apple music in high definition. But here is a taste.
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Bonne écoute! :)

P.S. You may also want to check his album DIRECT.
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I agree with this. 1492 was a case where the score was better than the film.
 
ed buller said:
The sounds are generic synth patches and even though the chords are heavily chromatic, the effect is one huge massive drone
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One needs to listen to this score in context to what was happening in film music in the early 80s. BR was very unique. So was the film of course. I am old enough to have been around and saw it in theaters first run. The score and the film and those synth sounds where like nothing you had ever heard. I don't think his scores sound dated as I keep them in context when they were released. It was trendy back then. Its no more dated than scores to Bing Crosby films from the 50s. They were what they were.
 
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doctoremmet said:
Whenever I (and likely Rogier as well) hear Vangelis, we’re reminded of this Dutch television programme:



with the coolest presenter that ever lived, Chriet Titulaer:

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Oh Yes, i do know that tv program very well. Actually he got me interested in ICT related things, as a young one.
There indeed was no-one like Chriet, unique presenting style and voice :)
good memories
 
Vangelis has produced so much diverse music. Often his CDs contain a track of more than 15 minutes playing a short original musical piece complete with tear-jerking romanticism.
Example :




Piano also :


...
 
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SupremeFist said:
Yeah but isn't that because all those new age guys ripped him off and so made that soundworld over-familiar very quickly?

For me Vangelis is a timbral/soundscape innovator allied to an unusual gift for earworm melody. Without him and John Carpenter, you don't get Hans Zimmer.
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And his expressiveness on piano even on something as “simple” as the Bounty end titles. Gets me every time.
 
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