Patrick de Caumette
Senior Member
Please explain the term negative harmony...
Thanks
Your favorite modulation tricks and tips?
- Thread starter tokatila
- Start date
Thanks
Steve Scott
New Member
Hi Patrick,
I hate the term, but I love the logic behind the idea. There are a few Youtube videos that explain it much better than I can.
I wouldn't trust those Youtube videos. They don't even mention Riemann's "dualist" system or Undertone series.
Patrick de Caumette
Senior Member
Thanks for the suggestion.
So far i only checked the one minute explanation and that left a lot of questions unanswered, but will go down the page and watch the lengthier ones in order to try to understand the concept...
I am puzzled by this because it seems that chords/keys are going down by a whole step except for the first two, by a major third...
I am sure that there is more to it than this example, because modulating down a major second is not particularly remarkable...
Steve Scott
New Member
The main factor used for getting the n.h. 'flip' from each previous chord is a tonal center selection to use as an axis for the flip. So that progression could have gone in different directions. You could theoretically use any axis, but to be n.h. the input chord has to belong to the major scale of the key you select. In that case a Maj7 chord always results in another Maj7, which is not common for other chord types. There is more to it, but I just use a software tool - select tonic and execute. Hats off to people who dont need a tool for that!
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Paul@Sydney
Senior Member
I've been steadily working through these modulations all day... some real firecrackers in there - the Up3 in particular, that chord voicing has just set me right off!
Gotten to the Up7 (C to G). And finding it very different. Despite it using a V7->I, it doesn't seem to actually establish the G as the new tonic. I think because the bass note is the third. Instead, it has this super mellow, meloncholic, mournful effect, and seems to want to continue to go else where, here, let me show with a couple of runs through, first just the chords played, and then a simple figure:
View attachment untitled.2023-04-23 19_19_38 up7 demo.mp3
Any thoughts on this?
Snarf
Senior Member
Sounds like a secondary dominant in the key of C. I agree it does not sound resolved yet.
ed buller
Senior Member
Yeah it's very unresolved:
this would be better
But to really establish a "Modulation" you should always cadence in the new key. So follow all these with a V7 I to make em perfect. The appeal of these for me ( when I found em ) was the simplicity and speed. But when going from I to V and making V the new I ( like here) you'll need more TBH
Great videos here:
Best
ed
Living Fossil
Senior Member
It's very easy: from the G/B just continue with D7/A to G/G.
Gives you a nice bass voice: c-c-b-a-g.
Case closed.
Paul@Sydney
Senior Member
That does sound good! Particularly if I leave the fifth out on the right hand, otherwise it sounds a bit cheesy and gospel with the fifth in. Thanks!
Paul@Sydney
Senior Member
Yes that sounds much more resolved, in one hit. Good old rimsky. I must read his book more. Thanks for the attachment!Truth be told THIS is the best. Good old Rimsky !
excellent resource:
Best
e
Emanuel Fróes
Senior Member
Emanuel Fróes
Senior Member
it is a term mostly used to impress, like polytonality and non-functional harmony
but the true origin is by H. Riemann in his "Simplified Harmony". S i m p l i f i e ...d
Since most modern harmony is based on upward harmonic series, the downward series, the inversion of the first, generates the discussion about negative harmony.
For Riemann the subdominant is the SUB-dominant: the dominant from below, from the inverted series...
The inverted series is deducted from the inversion of the tonic triad. But why does he go here? I also did not understand well the fundament. I readed and did not get convinced. Beyond this, a great book.
Patrick de Caumette
Senior Member
Thank you for the clarification.
I can understand that we can project and create a mirror image of the overtone series in theory.
But in reality, there is no such thing, so i am puzzled myself and need to find time to further explore before passing judment.
For now, i am not convinced that this is a strong direction...
R.G.
I'm a dude.
Steve Scott
New Member
Here is a bit of it in action in this 5 min video.
Patrick de Caumette
Senior Member
Emanuel Fróes
Senior Member
the whole thing of the dualism and "harmonic negativity" is based in a huge IF of Hugo Riemann, I consider doing a break down of the first part of his theory, since it drives me nuts how much people speak about "non-functional" harmony without even knowing what a variant is ; ) It is a bad habit we learn at the schools: learn to impress and pass the exam.
Keep in mind that Riemann does not speak about the term negative, or gives importance to it.
Another misunderstood thing are the terms prescriptions and prohibitions.
Attachments
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Emanuel Fróes
Senior Member
This is pop/common practice tonal harmony without organization.
