pderbidge
Senior Member
I am a singer. I have sung a lot of rock. I think you are confusing falsetto with head voice, or we listen to different rock music. What are your examples?
This is what falsetto sounds like
Ninezero - SynthV male English voice
- Thread starter David Cuny
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This is what falsetto sounds like
pderbidge
Senior Member
Here is another example of falsetto. When he sings "she will be loved" he goes into his falsetto but sometimes on the word loved he comes out of his falsetto. I don't mean to imply that it's never done but that it's not as common in rock music as you might think and that for most songs like the imagine dragons song you wouldn't miss it that much if it wasn't there.
pderbidge
Senior Member
Ask me.Depends on who you ask.
I have sung a lot of both Solos in rock and jazz, church pop and sung in many choirs. I use falsetto mostly as a tenor in choir and very little in the other genres. I do hear falsetto in pop more than anywhere else and maybe those twangy transition notes in country but a lot of those twangy transitions to high notes are the head voice.
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pderbidge
Senior Member
Here is a good article on the subject
"Falsetto is a thinner sound and is strictly in the ‘head’ and only uses the thin, leading edges of the vocal folds to vibrate. Head voice can be defined as a ‘mix’ of chest and head voice, which is generally a stronger sound than falsetto."
www.vocalcoach.com
"Falsetto is a thinner sound and is strictly in the ‘head’ and only uses the thin, leading edges of the vocal folds to vibrate. Head voice can be defined as a ‘mix’ of chest and head voice, which is generally a stronger sound than falsetto."
What's the Difference Between Head Voice and Falsetto? | Vocal
The audience shouldn’t be able to tell whether you are in head or chest voice
www.vocalcoach.com
Trash Panda
Clueless nitwit
In the circles I ran in and the vocal coaches I’ve used all basically used falsetto and head voice interchangeably. Even the last time I Googled it, the internet was split in opinion on whether it’s a specific technique or not. That being said, I recognize you have strong feelings on the matter, so I’ll concede the point and not derail the thread dying on this hill. Will that work?Ask me.
pderbidge
Senior Member
I suppose, but I don't think it's necessarily a controversial subject, and I think it's helpful to those who are trying to get the most realism out of SynthV voices. Two years ago, the vocal coach I was assigned for my music degree, would coach me on how to better my classical singing and when to use my head voice etc... so it's not like I don't have personal experience here. I have been singing since I was just a young lad, so....In the circles I ran in and the vocal coaches I’ve used all basically used falsetto and head voice interchangeably. Even the last time I Googled it, the internet was split in opinion on whether it’s a specific technique or not. That being said, I recognize you have strong feelings on the matter, so I’ll concede the point and not derail the thread dying on this hill. Will that work?
I'll leave everyone with this concept because I think it will help. There is a transition voice into the falsetto. Within that transition, a singer can either choose to go falsetto or strain their voice to hit the note, or "learn" techniques and breathing that won't strain the voice in that range. Once a singer goes past that transition voice, it's "ONLY" falsetto. At that point, the range of the singer's voice is too high for their chest voice or their head voice (By the way, I'm talking strictly males. For most females, it's just head voice and chest voice) A singer's falsetto is going to be specific to that singer. As more of a baritone singer, I am going to reach my falsetto range much sooner than a high tenor. This is why SynthV only has falsetto at certain notes for certain singers, because that is likely where the singer's falsetto range is authentically located for them. It is also important to note that I can't create falsetto below my transition range. It just doesn't sound the same if I tried. So the point is you can't just sing falsetto at will unless you are in your transition voice which, like I said, is specific to the person. For SynthV to be authentic to the voice, it would need to give us the option to manipulate falsetto only within that transition range. With singing practice techniques, you can learn to sing higher and higher which "might" alter where or how wide that transition range is, but I wouldn't know since I haven't really achieved as high of a voice as I'd like to sing, plus the fact that I have a vocal cord disorder that coincidentally developed after tonsil surgery about 15 years ago, so I'm just happy to just sing when my voice doesn't hurt to sing.
I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. I think the topic is useful for SynthV users. It's also entirely possible that I am not always aware of when I sing certain notes in falsetto, and that it may happen more than I pay attention to. It's just not something I use to sing whole phrases with, but rather more like the case in the song "Natural" by Imagine Dragons- just here and there in order to still hit the note, which in that use case I don't think is as crucial for SynthV voices to have but would be cool. Furthermore, it's certainly more obvious to me when I'm singing falsetto in a choir doing high tenor (yes, I'm a baritone, but I can sing high tenor with the help of falsetto in choir situations) and I have to use it more often on full phrases just to stay on the pitch.
PS- I suppose that the transition voice "could" be considered the head voice. I've never thought about it like that. I'll have to think on that one and pay more attention when I'm singing, when it's not hurting ):
BiroZombie
New Member
Enjoy my cover of “Would?” by Alice in Chains, using the Ninezero voicebank from Synth V.
AnhrithmonGelasma
Senior Member
"The head voice is achieved when the singer sings with an open throat and a lower larynx. Falsetto voice, on the other hand, is achieved when the vocal folds are stretched to their maximum.
When you are singing falsetto ... Your throat should be closed and your larynx up. At this point, it is very possible to hit very high notes compared to the head voice.
Funnily enough, there is a difference when it comes to gender when singing falsetto. A woman can sing falsetto but it may not be as noticeable as when a man does sings falsetto - this is due to the natural ways in which our voices are shaped by testosterone and estrogen."
www.musicgrotto.com
"Falsetto ... is defined by its airy, tinny sound. This sound is purposefully created to hit very high notes by loosening the vocal cord closure.
Head voice is defined by its richer and steadier vibrato resonating at a higher range than the normal speaking voice. Though head voice is similar to falsetto in the way they are both used to sing at a higher pitch, it’s important for singers to keep in mind that head voice does not contain the breathy, lighter sound found in falsetto."
Sure, many (possibly most) people confuse the two terms. And one could argue that "usage determines meaning", so if a majority of people use a technical term "incorrectly", that should be treated as the term's primary meaning. (Extending to composing, mathematics, science, etc....) But it's a distinction that is worth making.
When you are singing falsetto ... Your throat should be closed and your larynx up. At this point, it is very possible to hit very high notes compared to the head voice.
Funnily enough, there is a difference when it comes to gender when singing falsetto. A woman can sing falsetto but it may not be as noticeable as when a man does sings falsetto - this is due to the natural ways in which our voices are shaped by testosterone and estrogen."
Head Voice VS Falsetto Voice - Music Grotto
Trying to learn proper mechanics and techniques for singing? Learn the uses and techniques surrounding head voice vs falsetto voice here!
www.musicgrotto.com
"Falsetto ... is defined by its airy, tinny sound. This sound is purposefully created to hit very high notes by loosening the vocal cord closure.
Head voice is defined by its richer and steadier vibrato resonating at a higher range than the normal speaking voice. Though head voice is similar to falsetto in the way they are both used to sing at a higher pitch, it’s important for singers to keep in mind that head voice does not contain the breathy, lighter sound found in falsetto."
Sure, many (possibly most) people confuse the two terms. And one could argue that "usage determines meaning", so if a majority of people use a technical term "incorrectly", that should be treated as the term's primary meaning. (Extending to composing, mathematics, science, etc....) But it's a distinction that is worth making.
Synthvoice
New Member
pderbidge
Senior Member
Awesome! I've been hearing more and more great songs with 9z, and I'm so glad to see people proving the naysayers wrong. So many people commenting that they can't believe they are liking 9z in this song or that song when they never thought they would. The synthvoice world has been silo'd to the anime voices hyped on helium for waay too long and it's refreshing to see more unique voices like this entering the arena. I hope this is the start of a revolution of more voices like this and more talented musicians taking advantage of them. Of course, I'd also like to see some jazzy voices like Harry Connick Jr. as well, but I'll try to be patient.
Finney
Is It Music?
(Just have to say, thanks for writing this up. Learned some stuff here that I never even knew I didn't know! And yes, certainly applicable to thinking about how to use the SynthV voices and why they sound the way they do in places.)
This is really good - I'd love to know what settings you used to get NineZero to sound like this, as everything I've tried so far has been a bit too harsh!
Synthvoice
New Member
I tried lowering the Tension, Breathiness, and Tone Shift parameters to make him sound softer in the first verse/chorus. It doesn't give the sound I would hope for, but it helps. I really hope they add more vocal modes to him, the ones he has all sound the same to me.
Finney
Is It Music?
It's really good--I second what James_S said: can you show/tell how you have his voice initially set for Vocal Parameters?
Quasar
Senior Member
Cool cover. You present the song really well.
I like Ninezero much here much better in the lower registers, in the verse more than the chorus.
AnhrithmonGelasma
Senior Member
"desertion" around 1:32 in sounds great:
Wonder if there's tension automation on "soul desertion" and if so what it looks like....
Finney
Is It Music?
Wanted to take another stab at Ninezero. This is a work in progress; I've played around with breaking the aspiration into a different track and tweaking the formants on their own track. Also made cuts in EQ in a couple places trying to tame the nasality. I'm at the stage where I've listened to it too much and I'm not sure if it's worth the full treatment of remixing (music needs more cowbell...and drums...and life).
Would really appreciate any feedback, either way: hang it up or keep going! Thanks.
Would really appreciate any feedback, either way: hang it up or keep going! Thanks.
I'm amazed by how you turned him into a completely different ... character? It's still his (great!) powerful voice, but this is the first time I've heard him completely stripped of his usual kind of extreme attitude and overacting. I don't know how to say it properly, I'm not a native English speaker, but maybe you get my point. I wish 9z would sound the way you made him to out of the box. Tbh, initially I had hoped that Ninezero would record the voicebank a bit more "neutral"-wise and reserve the overly extreme part for his own music or at least leave it to the users to dial it in or not. Unfortunately, it turned out that the voicebank holds that exaggeratingly aggressive sound as a default, and now we're having to find ways to get rid of it without losing his power. Which isn't easy, but you managed it splendidly! Thanks for sharing!
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Finney
Is It Music?
Thanks! That is really good to hear. I'll keep playing at it. I'm afraid of sucking the life out him.
In case you want to try to recreate, here's what is done so far:
The voice is set to Muted 110%, Gender +0.150. The aspiration track is left as is but set -3db from the formant track.
The formant track has a send to Kilohearts Formant Filter, which is a free plugin from here. It's set like this:
It feeds back to the main formant track at -8.5db. That gives kind of a muffled push around 800 Hz.
There are dynamic 5db EQ notches at about 1050 Hz and at 1950 Hz.
Other than that, just the usual vocal compression /eq / reverb stuff.
