ScarletJerry
Senior Member
Thanks @A3D2 . That's how I set up Kontakt 5 on my old Mac. I forgot about that thread. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
EXS24 vs Sampler: any major differences?
- Thread starter A3D2
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OP
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A3D2
Active Member
You're welcome
GR-Productions
New Member
Lil late to the thread but i noticed that the new sampler does not as good as the esx24.
upon opening up esx24 material sampler did not perform as loud and bright like a akai sampler which is what the esx24 was designed after., this was still noticeable while tweaking it as well, i had to use maag4 eq to get that growl back.
upon opening up esx24 material sampler did not perform as loud and bright like a akai sampler which is what the esx24 was designed after., this was still noticeable while tweaking it as well, i had to use maag4 eq to get that growl back.
whinecellar
Jim Daneker
Interesting. I haven't noticed any difference, but of course it's not possible to have EXS and Sampler open at the same time since one supersedes the other. They certainly shouldn't be any sonic differences as it's just the GUI that was updated...
GR-Productions
New Member
you can open older logic copies, like v4
first off we know that both esx24 and sampler are butt ugly, but while its nice of Apple adding a modern look sort like beatmaker3 they seemed to of not cared about the original under the hood design of the esx24., it was built with the ability to handle EMU, AKAI and SDII sample libraries meaning all the same bells and whistles as the hardware.
but for the first time since the esx24 was created, my converted cd/dvd collection since the 90s cant load the way they used to in a sampler with logic unless i use KONTAKT., .maybe the apple, garage band junk sonically sounds right but i cant see how this sampler handles the original EMU, AKAI like esx24 when kontakt can., its sad if you ask me.
Sure man, some beg the question to why we still need samplers since the ability of DAWs evolved well.....synths, custom samples, sound of signature samplers to re produce those punchy 303 808 drums etc
first off we know that both esx24 and sampler are butt ugly, but while its nice of Apple adding a modern look sort like beatmaker3 they seemed to of not cared about the original under the hood design of the esx24., it was built with the ability to handle EMU, AKAI and SDII sample libraries meaning all the same bells and whistles as the hardware.
but for the first time since the esx24 was created, my converted cd/dvd collection since the 90s cant load the way they used to in a sampler with logic unless i use KONTAKT., .maybe the apple, garage band junk sonically sounds right but i cant see how this sampler handles the original EMU, AKAI like esx24 when kontakt can., its sad if you ask me.
Sure man, some beg the question to why we still need samplers since the ability of DAWs evolved well.....synths, custom samples, sound of signature samplers to re produce those punchy 303 808 drums etc
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whinecellar
Jim Daneker
I could be wrong, but I think all the original filter models are still there… they may have just added a few from Alchemy if I’m not mistaken. And having the second filter is optional of course.
I still have the last version of MainStage with EXS24 on my system since I develop for that… I will open both and do some testing. I’ve heavily depended on my custom EXS library for ~20 years though and I know those sounds inside and out; if something didn’t sound right I feel like I would know it right away. Will definitely report back!
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A3D2
Active Member
My personal EXS24 library is quite large and so far I haven't noticed any sonic difference in my existing instruments... @GR-Productions Perhaps it is a matter of some settings that haven't translated well? Velocity settings are perhaps different on your akai instruments? Or perhaps the 'drive' knob can help you out with some more crunchy sound? I have none of the older akai etc instruments, so it's hard to help you with that... It would be a pity if they removed that import functionality. I cannot imagine why they would do that. Is the default Sampler filter the same as the default EXS24 filter? I would think so, but haven't checked that yet.
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GR-Productions
New Member
The ESX24 was designed to handle AKAI, even had the menu for this in the past and Emagic was assisting with software developers to convert even more libraries before Apple purchased Emagic.
I have allot of experience with all the hardware samplers, mainly AKAI, E-MU and ROLAND., converting those formats was on Emagic's agenda since the late 1990s., the challenge was to get the conversions to emulate the hardware, things like signature effects or components used to deliver the sound the hardware was known for.
So my point is that the samples themselves are nothing compared to the hardware, which I expect to see more of this year after Roland rolled out the JV080 and AKAI beefed up their MPC stuff.
My library is enormous, 5TB, cds-dvds since the 90s in multiple formats while mainly converted to ESX24, but my library is not just samples of known brand names, I helped convert any format to built templates for producers who also traded between each other during artist development, so I have sample libraries which are built around artists, their identity and brand as well via the esx24 because it contained features and SOUNDED clear and loud., hope this explains my concern.
But the logic SAMPLER is not only failing to open instruments I created from AKAI etc conversions, meaning lacking the AKAI growl that the ESX24 used to maintain., the new SAMPLER is failing to open allot of things correctly, maybe they remapped filters ?, for example, the decay and release are off pads with few samples where off, the volume playback way too low, i had to add the gain plug in and a “Plugin Alliance“ maag eq to regain what i had originally tweaked to be as close or identical to the origina.
Anyway just sharing what I found out since discovering this forum.
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OP
OP
A3D2
Active Member
Thanks for that information. Indeed it is good to know. Should you still want to use those AKAI sounds in Sampler and have a better volume, perhaps you can make it louder with the "group" volume and independent volume per sample? I always find that using the "drive" knob can give a nice growl to the sound. Hope that helps a bit
GR-Productions
New Member
tweaking as you described is like claiming Logic’s compressor can sound exactly like ISA API AKA neve focusrite ETC, Apple certainly removed the most important under the hood codes to make a fancy GUI, it does not sound better then a ESX 24., not just the akai simulation and punch, its just another sampler., no character.Thanks for that information. Indeed it is good to know. Should you still want to use those AKAI sounds in Sampler and have a better volume, perhaps you can make it louder with the "group" volume and independent volume per sample? I always find that using the "drive" knob can give a nice growl to the sound. Hope that helps a bit
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OP
OP
A3D2
Active Member
I understand, just trying to help you
. Should you still want to use those Sampler instruments instead of in Kontakt you could perhaps try Tal DAC (https://tal-software.com/products/tal-dac) as an audio fx. This emulates the DAC of old samplers and can be used on anything you like... Or perhaps you could send a mail about this issue to Apple via the Logic Feedback form?
whinecellar
Jim Daneker
Curiosity got the best of me, so I just did a quick test. I opened MainStage 3.4.3 which still uses EXS24, and Logic 10.5.0 which uses Sampler. I loaded the same program into both - from an old drum library I converted from Akai ages ago (much of my EXS library was originally in Akai, Roland or Ensoniq).
I hit record in both, imported the audio from MainStage, and flipped the phase: they totally cancel out. Now granted, this is a drum loop that doesn’t have a filter on it - I don’t know which of the Sampler filter models correspond to the EXS versions so I picked something simple to eliminate that variable.
But at least this quick test tells me their basic sample playback is identical. And I haven’t heard anything in any of my other often-used sounds that strikes me as any different than I’ve been hearing for two+ decades in EXS24. But if anyone uncovers anything of note, I’d love to hear it!
Here’s a quick iPhone Video showing the polarity reversal while the loop plays:
www.dropbox.com
I hit record in both, imported the audio from MainStage, and flipped the phase: they totally cancel out. Now granted, this is a drum loop that doesn’t have a filter on it - I don’t know which of the Sampler filter models correspond to the EXS versions so I picked something simple to eliminate that variable.
But at least this quick test tells me their basic sample playback is identical. And I haven’t heard anything in any of my other often-used sounds that strikes me as any different than I’ve been hearing for two+ decades in EXS24. But if anyone uncovers anything of note, I’d love to hear it!
Here’s a quick iPhone Video showing the polarity reversal while the loop plays:
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
www.dropbox.com
Alex Fraser
Requires ☕️
Thanks Jim. Love the old esx24 icons. I might just copy that idea..Curiosity got the best of me, so I just did a quick test. I opened MainStage 3.4.3 which still uses EXS24, and Logic 10.5.0 which uses Sampler. I loaded the same program into both - from an old drum library I converted from Akai ages ago (much of my EXS library was originally in Akai, Roland or Ensoniq).
I hit record in both, imported the audio from MainStage, and flipped the phase: they totally cancel out. Now granted, this is a drum loop that doesn’t have a filter on it - I don’t know which of the Sampler filter models correspond to the EXS versions so I picked something simple to eliminate that variable.
But at least this quick test tells me their basic sample playback is identical. And I haven’t heard anything in any of my other often-used sounds that strikes me as any different than I’ve been hearing for two+ decades in EXS24. But if anyone uncovers anything of note, I’d love to hear it!
Here’s a quick iPhone Video showing the polarity reversal while the loop plays:
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
GR-Productions
New Member
You certainly will hear a difference if try testing with no fx, sampler is just a plain generic GUI knock off compared to the sonic clarity of the esx24 sonic or kontakt.Curiosity got the best of me, so I just did a quick test. I opened MainStage 3.4.3 which still uses EXS24, and Logic 10.5.0 which uses Sampler. I loaded the same program into both - from an old drum library I converted from Akai ages ago (much of my EXS library was originally in Akai, Roland or Ensoniq).
I hit record in both, imported the audio from MainStage, and flipped the phase: they totally cancel out. Now granted, this is a drum loop that doesn’t have a filter on it - I don’t know which of the Sampler filter models correspond to the EXS versions so I picked something simple to eliminate that variable.
But at least this quick test tells me their basic sample playback is identical. And I haven’t heard anything in any of my other often-used sounds that strikes me as any different than I’ve been hearing for two+ decades in EXS24. But if anyone uncovers anything of note, I’d love to hear it!
Here’s a quick iPhone Video showing the polarity reversal while the loop plays:
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
GR-Productions
New Member
Yeah i do appreciate it very much and want to thank all you guys on thise site, great place, glad i found it..
(removed a comment before)
I would rather use the Sampler in logic with my go to sample instruments etc
Hope Apple is listening (but we been through this before, they take years and force you to buy newer devices ) its all they are about,$$$
(removed a comment before)
I would rather use the Sampler in logic with my go to sample instruments etc
Hope Apple is listening (but we been through this before, they take years and force you to buy newer devices ) its all they are about,$$$
I understand, just trying to help you
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MrBBojahr
New Member
Hello everybody,
I also noticed this at the time, that Logic 10.5 sounded different on some sessions. I have then also tried and tested and in 10.5 where somehow different envelope settings when using envelope- and key-scaling. On some instruments this seems to be similar to a short fade-in. I also submitted this via Apple's feedback and since several versions this is fixed and everything sounds good again. Just tried again with 10.6.3, there everything is ok.
Here is a comparison:
Many greetings
Björn
I also noticed this at the time, that Logic 10.5 sounded different on some sessions. I have then also tried and tested and in 10.5 where somehow different envelope settings when using envelope- and key-scaling. On some instruments this seems to be similar to a short fade-in. I also submitted this via Apple's feedback and since several versions this is fixed and everything sounds good again. Just tried again with 10.6.3, there everything is ok.
Here is a comparison:
Many greetings
Björn
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GR-Productions
New Member
I was thinking of doing the same thing but thought it would appear too much after posting so many comments, glad no one gas lighted me here or pretended its a minuscule thing and im crazy (as on apple discussions )Hello everybody,
I also noticed this at the time, that Logic 10.5 sounded different on some sessions. I have then also tried and tested and in 10.5 was somehow also at Attack=0 a built-in fade-in to hear. I also submitted this via Apple's feedback and since several versions this is fixed and everything sounds good again. Just tried again with 10.6.3, there everything is ok.
Here is a comparison:
Many greetings
Björn
thanks for sharing
MrBBojahr
New Member
I have corrected my post above a bit, that had to do with the key and envelope scaling at that time. And I can imagine that well with Akai samples, because they had to create ready-to-play sounds from a few megabytes. If you can use enough samples (as is common today), then these options are almost irrelevant, then you hardly need them and then the differences are not audible.I was thinking of doing the same thing but thought it would appear too much after posting so many comments, glad no one gas lighted me here or pretended its a minuscule thing and im crazy (as on apple discussions )
thanks for sharing
A part of my sampling library still consists of the old sounds from Akai and Roland samplers. And I still use some of them today.
