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Phase Plant or Pigments 4? Which do you like more and why?

Which is the best for granular things? I tried the Pigments 4 demo which is nice, but there is no demo for phase plant. on videos the granular engine in phase plant looks like more advanced.
I can say as a long-time user of both, Pigments has had a granular synth engine (I believe) since day one, whereas Phase Plant only added a granular engine in the most recent version. I haven't played with PP's granular engine much since the new release so I can't really speak to it, though for that reason it might be less mature. Though Kilohearts products are pretty great and you can do basically whatever you want (extremely modular), so with that in mind you can probably pull off even more complex modulations.

All that said, my take on the two is that Pigments is a bit more "user-friendly" and immediate from the jump. I really enjoy working in it, just super easy to use and the layout is intuitive, FX sounds great.

Whereas Phase Plant has more advanced modular capabilities, it's also a steeper learning curve and a CPU-eater, so I usually only turn to it when I know I want to create a patch which is quite experimental and wild. For most granular pads, I'd rather use Pigments for that reason.
 
I've seen a lot of reference to a free trial, though all I found on the Kilohearts website is "If you are using an outdated OS please try our free trials to ensure compatibility before making any purchases." Splice mentions "Try Phase Plant free for 3 days, then pay $7.99/month for 25 months until you own it through Splice". I had been planning on demoing Phase Plant so this is a bit concerning---3 days isn't very long, beyond testing basic compatibility....
Try just downloading it. I'm surprised there's nothing explicitly pointing to a trial length, but I haven't heard of their demo policy changing
 
To trial FP, click on the buy button and it shows the option to trial.
I tried it and and didn't like the workflow.
Not saying that it's bad, but I realised that this level of modularity isn't for me.
 
Please excuse my indulgence! I hope this is actually useful.

Zebra has probably the most complexity under the hood - that's to say the filters, for example, are not just filters, they're multiple tuned stages of saturation and filtering (visibly so in the XMF modules) in order to achieve a very rich and complex behavior and sound, which some might call "analog". In Phase Plant, you're responsible for building that complexity with bare tools. Case in point again, Zebra offers 4-5 comb filter types per comb module, with different arrangements of multiple processors within the feedback path, leading to an impossibly large sonic palette for physical modelling and creating shimmering, groaning, airy, metallic sounds, the list goes on. Phase Plant by contrast offers a comb filter with a feedback control, but Phase Plant has a different idea in mind when it comes to architecture.

Pigments is sort of an intermediary. Its layout is strict; it is not nearly so semi-modular, but the modules it contains are often somewhat more complex than in Phase Plant. For example, it offers an allpass filter in the feedback path of its Comb LPF - which is a useful and customizable sound (weird and pretty). Pigments' additive is not mirrored in any way by the other two synths, mostly producing harsh or "additive-sounding" sounds, but the parameterization affords making a variety of useful and pleasing sounds - it is worth a few tries. Pigments' granular is uniquely good in that it does not shorten grain length past certain grain rates/densities, leading to more capability for the "wash" sound and being able to sear a steak with your CPU. The effects, like the shimmer reverb, delay and chorus sound good! The modulation is comparatively limited, which is probably enough for most users, evidenced by a whole lot of good-sounding presets.

The extent to which you can process sounds in Kilohearts plugins, and the ease and speed of making such complex patches, is the selling point for Phase Plant. Right off the bat you've got as many or more features for oscillator types, fx and modulation (so many more). But then you can go running 49 parallel keytracked polyphonic resonators in a Snap Heap setup, with macros and modulators augmenting their tuning, decay, panning etc.; which might sound alarming, but Phase Plant makes it easy. And you could make it two million resonators or more if your cpu was designed by the Lord; the system scales as far as you and your cpu can take it. On the Kilohearts discord you can find ample Snap Heap presets that will with a few macro knobs completely transform any input sound into something completely different, maybe beautiful, or a complete mess. That's the power of Snap Heap and the Khs modulation system! Doing that, and having one of the most powerful modulation/polyphonic FX/FM implementations in softsynths, and the layering and unison modes, that's why Phase Plant is special.

At which point one might wonder why not just get Falcon or MSoundFactory -- answer being they kind of suck to use compared to Phase Plant or Zebra. For most people, anyway - they're certainly more powerful in some ways. Phase Plant is powerful enough that the 8 macros at the top may as well be replaced soon with the Performance View of these Kontakt-competitor super-synths, and maybe at some point they will. Phase Plant is after all more likely to get a multisampling system and custom feedback chain processing/routing than Falcon or MSoundFactory are to get a workflow that doesn't make one want to leave their studio! Sad as it is. In fact, those features already being talked about by the devs. So it is not hyperbole. :|
I feel you.

If you search my post history you will see me discussing these points.

The thing is, PhasePlant is never going to sound like Zebra. The workflow is superb but KiloHearts are actually proud of its digital sound. I watched a live stream of them recently where they talked about this. They are game devs turned sound devs and I had hopes they would consider getting better DSP (as in more analog) but it seems they are quite happy with how things are sounding now. So this basically killed PhasePlant for me.

And Pigments... I know it has huge fans but to me it doesn't sound so great either. And I always end up frustrated by fixed architecture synths.

So the question becomes why Zebra and not Falcon, MSF, or VCV. Objectively, on paper, these are better than Zebra, right? You can do so much more. But in terms of creativity and connection to the instrument these are worlds apart for me, personally.

Brian Eno talks about this on why primitive instruments like the guitar or a drumkit still are extremely popular and being used to generate new music. Because you can connect with it.

See this timestamped video at (around 26:00):



Personally I just can't connect with Falcon, MSF, or VCV. So I just keep using Zebra 2 and waiting for Zebra 3 to come around.

And I'm still looking for a hybrid (synth + sampler) tool...

 
The thing is, PhasePlant is never going to sound like Zebra. The workflow is superb but KiloHearts are actually proud of its digital sound. I watched a live stream of them recently where they talked about this. They are game devs turned sound devs and I had hopes they would consider getting better DSP (as in more analog) but it seems they are quite happy with how things are sounding now. So this basically killed PhasePlant for me.
What may turn things around for you in Phase Plant will be whether feedback is implemented in such a way that makes achieving these complex filter and saturation sounds possible. We'll just have to see if they do it well; but if so we'd just be loading Snap Heaps instead of XMFs. That would be of course after we or someone re-invents the wheel/reads the right papers on U-he's beuatifully modelled filters :emoji_frowning2:, or well enough anyway. I understand what Kilohearts is saying when they talk about being happy with the sound and I know what you mean when you say you're not...

MSF and Falcon are more for designing instruments with easy screens, but it seems that's rarely the direction a creator wants to go unless there's a financial incentive, which for these non-Kontakt workstations the marketshare just isn't as big. I've made a few patches now in Phase Plant where having the patch be a full custom instrument was attractive enough to make me think about actually jumping into MSF, but it's so arduous. And is it that much easier in the end to use a custom instrument than to just build a patch from scratch in Zebra or use a preset? (Kontakt sound design library owners might say yes.) Paying some attention to QOL would make Falcon and MSF so much better and open it up for more regular use. Too bad. That would be an even better USP over Kontakt than just having incomparably more sound design tools, would just be being something I didn't actively hate using!
 
What may turn things around for you in Phase Plant will be whether feedback is implemented in such a way that makes achieving these complex filter and saturation sounds possible.
I'm happy to constantly re-evaluate products but I doubt it.

If they add feedback, it's most likely going to be implemented in the effects section not in the voice section. And yeah you can make fx lanes polyphonic but this is going to be a huge CPU killer.

And this doesn't change the fact that their DSP just doesn't sound good to me.
 
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