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XLN Life

I'm trying to figure out what this gives me over using Ableton's Simpler and a sequencer, except the randomizer of the slicing. If it uses transient detection, how random will the slices be? Does it not slice to transients every time?
I've used Loopmix a bit, but it left me wanting too many features to be added to it. Must demo this.
 
timprebble said:
I presume it's mostly been trained on 4/4 - be interesting to see what it does with non 4/4 time signatures...

Click to expand...

I'm sure it's 4/4 but the question I have is how varied it can be within the 4/4 structure. There are LOTS of rythem patterns in 4/4 alone, but I'm not sure how interesting the random ones it makes are. Will have to demo it next week.
 
Missed opportunity if it only works with 4/4 signatures. XO's loop mode is only 4/4 also but you can play the kits in your daw's sequencer for other time signatures. It's fairly common to write in 5/4, 6/8, and 7/8 so I'm surprised when I find vst loop percussion plugins that don't support that.
 
Dirtgrain said:
I'm trying to figure out what this gives me over using Ableton's Simpler and a sequencer, except the randomizer of the slicing. If it uses transient detection, how random will the slices be? Does it not slice to transients every time?
I've used Loopmix a bit, but it left me wanting too many features to be added to it. Must demo this.
Click to expand...
I don't know if this is using the same tech but a clever example of using pre-made patterns is the Mutable Instruments eurorack module GRIDS (free VCV version here and MAxforLIVE version here) which is a 'topographic drum sequencer' and is based on analysing a very large number of real drum patterns, building a database and then creating a user interface where the user can browse the database in real time. The module is only three channels (Kick, snare, hihhat - although you can assign them to whatever you like) but the number of combinations makes it seem infinite.

 
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Someone pointed this out over on KVR, looks like they can use your samples for AI training and other skullduggery:

"
7) For the purposes of enabling XLN Audio to enhance its Software and services, including by use of machine learning and for AI training purposes, the Customer grants to XLN Audio the following license:

a) a non-exclusive, irrevocable, free-of-charge, worldwide, perpetual, transferable, sublicensable license to access, analyze, copy, store, modify, create derivatives from, make available to the public and otherwise use, in any manner and media, all Created Music Work and any parts thereof, including but not limited to any recordings, stems, loops, sounds, samples, presets, MIDI files and underlying compositions (if any), and any other material generated by the Customer in connection with the use of the Software;
b) to the extent applicable and permittable under applicable law, you waive any so-called “moral rights” in relation to the license in paragraph 6(7) a) above;
c) for the avoidance of doubt, paragraph 6(7) a) and b) above shall apply also to Created Music Work created by the Customer during the Trial Period, regardless of whether the Customer exercises its right to withdraw in accordance with paragraph 5 above."

www.xlnaudio.com

XLN Audio

XLN Audio creates audio plugins for music production
www.xlnaudio.com www.xlnaudio.com
 
It was, sadly, the first question that popped up in my mind when I initially read "cloud-based": What happens with my uploads? I say sadly, because I actually really like XLN as a company.
 
sean8877 said:
Someone pointed this out over on KVR, looks like they can use your samples for AI training and other skullduggery:

"
7) For the purposes of enabling XLN Audio to enhance its Software and services, including by use of machine learning and for AI training purposes, the Customer grants to XLN Audio the following license:

a) a non-exclusive, irrevocable, free-of-charge, worldwide, perpetual, transferable, sublicensable license to access, analyze, copy, store, modify, create derivatives from, make available to the public and otherwise use, in any manner and media, all Created Music Work and any parts thereof, including but not limited to any recordings, stems, loops, sounds, samples, presets, MIDI files and underlying compositions (if any), and any other material generated by the Customer in connection with the use of the Software;
b) to the extent applicable and permittable under applicable law, you waive any so-called “moral rights” in relation to the license in paragraph 6(7) a) above;
c) for the avoidance of doubt, paragraph 6(7) a) and b) above shall apply also to Created Music Work created by the Customer during the Trial Period, regardless of whether the Customer exercises its right to withdraw in accordance with paragraph 5 above."

www.xlnaudio.com

XLN Audio

XLN Audio creates audio plugins for music production
www.xlnaudio.com www.xlnaudio.com
Click to expand...

wow!
So this is one way companies are trying to "legally" do machine learning. Not by paying for data, but by making the users pay. Thats a big no thanks from me. I'll update the first post in this thread.
 
Honestly there is waaaaaaay too much emphasis on the ai part of this. There is zero ai going on in this plug, it’s just transient detection and then a Euclidean beat sequencer with randomization and some processing.

Hopefully xln sees this and can adjust the wording in their fine print. Doubt their signature customers like Mike Dean want xln to own his next JayZ production.
 
motomotomoto said:
Honestly there is waaaaaaay too much emphasis on the ai part of this. There is zero ai going on in this plug, it’s just transient detection and then a Euclidean beat sequencer with randomization and some processing.

Hopefully xln sees this and can adjust the wording in their fine print. Doubt their signature customers like Mike Dean want xln to own his next JayZ production.
Click to expand...
why would they have this in the T&C then? These things do not happen by accident
lol ‘adjust the wording’ - lets see if that happens…
 
My guess is lawyers got a bit too lawyery. But we will see. Seems a lot of plugins these days are touting their AI, when there is nothing much going on using AI at all. Maybe, maybe, some ML at some point in the process but no active AI.
 
For me, the ML/AI part of the T&C isn't what's bothering me. It's the whole paragraph 7a which does in no way sound like the usual "guys we need the right to actually store and distribute your data for this to work".

It literally says "anything you create and/or upload with our tool is ours and we will be able to do anything we like with it".

Why would anyone be ok with that?
 
Also bear in mind if users import splice loops for example, they're automatically uploaded to XLN's cloud and everyone's in a copyright minefield.
 
I just looked up the old T&C on Wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20231029103936/https://www.xlnaudio.com/terms_and_conditions

This new paragraph was just added a week ago, clearly because of Life. What's also worrying is that these are the general terms and conditions for all XLN software - but I've received no notice that they are changing their T&C. Does this mean that the new conditions now retroactively apply til XO, RC20, Addictive Drums and so on?
Also, isn't there a legal obligation to notify the customers?
 
muratkayi said:
Awesome! XLN underlining again what I really like about them - being in meaningful dialogue with their customers
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Someone on Twitter asked if they used ChatGTP to write that T&C. They didn't reply but it would not surprise me due to how wonky & unworkable it was... and knowing how much lawyers charge... But that old T&C should never have seen the light of day.
 
So can anyone who speaks 'legal' put it in simple terms what they're actually saying in the revised T+C?
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to state that while we keep the rights to the musical work created with the sounds we import into Life, we are also granting them a license to use said sounds and the manipulation thereof by Life, to train their own machine learning models, aka Life and possible others, to improve.

Considering my existing dislike for training AI as the topic du jour, I think I'll abstain from buying into this for now.

By the way, not the same, but thank you @timprebble for pointing out Vice. Very cool and the closest thing I've found to the Arcade sampler (I keep begging Output to release JUST the sampler).
 
davidson said:
So can anyone who speaks 'legal' put it in simple terms what they're actually saying in the revised T+C?
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They are saying that anything you create using their software they can upload and use it in anyway they see fit including machine learning models to improve their product. But, it doesn't stop there. They can then alter it in anyway they see fit, and then others can download it and use it as well. You keep the right to use your original work in your own compositions and that's where your rights end.

It's totally f'@#D and one would be a fool to use this product, imo.
 
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