Any love here for MOOG DFAM? Or other rhythmical synths?
- Thread starter pmountford
- Start date
Wally Garten
Senior Member
Hi,
the DFAM sounds absolutely huge! and it is unique. It has the tone lol.
But you have to know that it has zero midi implementation. It work well in a modular setup or with a semi modular moog setup (with a mother 32 or a grandmother).
Hopefully, there is some tricks to pair it with a DAW => You'll have to use a midi/CV converter such as an arturia keystep or korg SQ1. With it you can almost control it like any midi synth with your DAW.
But you'll can't do any automation and we can say that 8 steps for a beat machine is pretty restrictive. So it is primarly aimed for techno or really basic rythms. futhermore as metho1 said, you can't save patches...
I think it's real power is in sound design, or in a live setup with other hardware units.
Sure it will give something to a Matrixbrute, but a semi or fully modular synth to pair with it will be much better. Depends on what is your goal?
To show you an idea:
There is some other alternative such the make noise 0 coast
And also Arturia have some good one to consider with the Drumbrute serie.
The 0-Coast is a beaut. I mostly use it with an external sequencer, but in principle it can do generative rhythmic stuff as well:
The Drumbrute is also great -- more of a conventional drum machine, but with cool, unusual sounds, independent outputs for each drum, and a really great sequencer.
And for more exotic generative rhythmic experiments, I'm fond of the Bastl BitRanger, which does a bunch of complicated stuff with clock dividers:
(The BitRanger's not really about "tone," though. In fact, I think it's a little more pleasant if you can run it through a filter after the fact....)
OP
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pmountford
Senior Member
The DFAM has arrived (Beatstep Pro should be here soon). I've literally only taken it out of the box and had a quick play. Early days yet but it did get me thinking what the next step would be to complement this. I'm not really interested in going modular but semi-modular maybe if there are enough sonic/creative benefits? Is there any justification for combining with a Mother 32? And if so, the Behringer Crave looks interesting as an incredibly low cost version of the M32 from what I've seen on YouTube. (Not sure how similar the patch bays are between the Crave and M32 though). And then there is the Grandmother (Matriarch out of my budget). Prior to picking up the Matrixbrute I was looking at the Sub37, so the Grandmother looks interesting as a way into semi modular? @khollister, as a Matriarch user, any thoughts?
khollister
Senior Member
Grandmother all day long vs a Mother32 or Behringer. While certainly less versatile than the Matriarch, It has the same family sound (vintage Moog modular). Unlike the Matriarch, I believe that incoming MIDI is converted to CV. The Matriarch only converts aftertouch (hence why I have the Kenton Pro Solo). Probably something to do with the Matriarch being paraphonic.
I'm actually thinking about a Subsequent 37 myself if I can figure out where to put it.
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pmountford
Senior Member
Excuse my lack of understanding between these 2 Moogs but is there that much difference between the Subsequent 37 and the Matriarch that having both would be beneficial? Just curious.
khollister
Senior Member
The sub37 has memory (presets), a slightly different architecture and a different sound. The VCO's, VCA's etc are not based on the old modular stuff like the matriarch & grandmother. It is also the coolest looking synth I've seen
I'm just on a Moog kick lately - more likely to get a Subharmonicon than anything else.
Double Helix
[no data]
Been reading though the thread, bringing back memories of the multiple CV outs on my ol' Yamaha CS40-M (the first programmable synth I ever had)The sub37 has memory (presets), a slightly different architecture and a different sound. The VCO's, VCA's etc are not based on the old modular stuff like the matriarch & grandmother. It is also the coolest looking synth I've seen
. . . anyway I have a Moog Sub37, which I delivered to Asheville to be updated to Subsequent 37 spec. At my advanced age, it is my first-ever Moog (how did I live this long without ever getting one?) I have had it for about eighteen months: Love it--I don't even mind the menu diving :o)
I will be interested to hear how @pmountford gets on with his DFAM
amontagnet
New Member
Hey guys, this may be a dumb question, but I have to ask it as I cannot find a good understandable answer anywhere. I recently got a Mother-32 and a DFAM. I have a KeyStep 37 and BeatStep Pro. I am scared of hurting my Moog equipment since it runs from -5V to 5V and the Beatstep Pro runs from 0V to 12V. How to I connect the Beatstep Pro to the DFAM and Mother-32 without damaging them? I could not find the setting in the Midi Control Center. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am totally lost...
Solarsentinel
Active Member
It's totally different approach: the sub 37 is duophonic, the Matriarch is 4 paraphonic and semi modular.
The sub 37 is aimed for Studio users, beacause it has a plugin to control it with your DAW like a vst,and it can save a lot of presets.
The Matriarch has no software and like the GM some parameters cannot be controlled with your DAW (due to fully analog circuits).
Sounds are also different, the Sub 37 have a subgenerator and a multidrive. The Matriarch not
Both are great but for different things.
Indeed the Behringer Crave is almost the same as the M32. The difference is the filter. Filter of the crave is kindlike a prophet filter. For the patchbay it's almost the same. The big difference between the two is the form factor. The M32 is in a modular case, and have eurorack dimension in order to put into a full modular setup.
Hi, i don't have a BSP, but looking at this :
and this:
Section 9.1.4
You'll have to configure the C3 with 0V in the midi controls. It appears to work with a Moog Grandmother. Hope this will help you.
Futhermore it seems the M32 Gate is tolerant to 10V, so you should'nt have any problem with it.
The last solution is to connect the beatstep pro to the M32 via midi with the midi out from the BSP to the midi in of the M32.
amontagnet
New Member
Thank you for your help with the Beatstep Pro and M32. What about the Beatstep Pro with the DFAM? The DFAM doesn’t have a MIDI connection...
Is there a work around for the voltage not going as low as -5V and then going too high for the DFAM?
Again, any information would be greatly appreciated!
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pmountford
Senior Member
I'm still waiting for the Beatstep Pro to arrive but as soon as its here I'll let you know if I have any problems.
Solarsentinel
Active Member
I think you cannot modify the dfam voltage. Check the manual to see which in and out is tolerant to what voltage (the ext input tolerate +10v for example) but the range stick between -5 to +5v in general. It is a standard eurorack voltages.
So you have to tweak the beatstep instead. It is capable of doing 0-5v, 0-1v or 0-10v. If you can't found how to do it, don t hesitate to contact even moog sav or arturia sav, they are very reactive.
shawnsingh
Senior Member
I'm not much of a hardware synth nerd... for digital, software generally seems more flexible and has faster workflow. non-modular analog, I don't personally feel I'm missing out on the great tone versus digital. On the other hand, all-out modular is hard to justify with my very limited one-desk home studio, and the workflow of cable patching still doesn't seem so immediate either, if I imagine trying to quickly dial in something.
But the pulsar 23... It looks like a consolidated version of what I would have wished my own modular setup to look like - the goal of rhythmic sound design exploration with tons of modulation options to mangle and destroy the sound. With the added advantage of hand-playable modulations (i.e. ultimate immediacy) and a big advantage of being already tried-and-true version of what I'm interested in, instead of having to start my own long journey going through different modules for who-knows-how-long.
But the pulsar 23... It looks like a consolidated version of what I would have wished my own modular setup to look like - the goal of rhythmic sound design exploration with tons of modulation options to mangle and destroy the sound. With the added advantage of hand-playable modulations (i.e. ultimate immediacy) and a big advantage of being already tried-and-true version of what I'm interested in, instead of having to start my own long journey going through different modules for who-knows-how-long.
amontagnet
New Member
Thank you for the info! I figured it out!
Fragility1420
New Member
Hi everyone,
I'm currently borrowing a friend's DFAM. I love the sounds and the versality of the parameters, but I still haven't wrapped my head around the CV sync logistics.
I have a Korg MS-20 that I sequence with an MPC1000. I see that the MS-20 has various CV outs, but I have no idea how, or if, I can use the MPC to control the tempo of the DFAM (via the MS-20).
Does anyone know if this is possible? And if so, how can I connect these? Are there different options with different functionality?
Much appreciated in advance. Thanks!
I'm currently borrowing a friend's DFAM. I love the sounds and the versality of the parameters, but I still haven't wrapped my head around the CV sync logistics.
I have a Korg MS-20 that I sequence with an MPC1000. I see that the MS-20 has various CV outs, but I have no idea how, or if, I can use the MPC to control the tempo of the DFAM (via the MS-20).
Does anyone know if this is possible? And if so, how can I connect these? Are there different options with different functionality?
Much appreciated in advance. Thanks!
wing
Active Member
I wouldn't try to use the MS-20 for many CV tasks, personally. Korg used a different control voltage system known as Hz/V and S-trig, resulting in flipped signal phase opposite from what pretty much anything else in the Eurorack world is expecting. You technically can get it to work with specialized modules and adapters, but it's a pain in the ass for that application. I say all of this as an owner of an MS-20 (mini) and a DFAM - but I have other Eurorack modules so I just don't use MS-20 for anything, especially going outbound since there's not really much useful coming out of the MS-20 that I can't already do elsewhere. I can't even think of anything useable there in terms of clock sync either.
Do you have any other modules within the Eurorack realm? I don't own an MPC1000, but does it have any CV outs?
The DFAM notably does not have any actual midi control. You can use https://sonoclast.com/products/mafd_2hp/ (this small add-on module) to introduce midi functionality, which you can then patch into DFAM's CV inputs for sync/trig.
Better yet, I use a separate Midi-to-CV module which is exactly how I sync the DFAM. If you don't have Eurorack you could look at something like the CV.OCD which allows you to convert midi into multiple CV outputs. It's pretty handy.
However since you said you're just borrowing your friend's DFAM, and if you don't already own any Eurorack modules, I think it would be overkill to invest in either the little expander or CV.OCD just for that. (I've always been a bit surprised Moog didn't add the ability to add midi into the DFAM, if anything just for sync!)
Exhausting all these options, it's not totally hopeless. There's a last ditch technique which may work for you. Basically CV clock sync (such as DFAM's ADV/CLOCK input) is simply expecting a loud and fast pulse. Every gear is different, but in the case of DFAM, it wants 4 PPQN (pulses per quarter note). Meaning 16th notes in 4/4.
You could create a midi track on your daw with something like a click sound - a kick drum with no decay or rim shot can work, and create a looped midi region with that sound repeated at 16th notes. Then output this track directly out of an audio interface using a standard audio cable into the 1/8" jack input on the DFAM labelled ADV/CLOCK. Ideally it will only go out to the DFAM and not to your speakers, as it can get very loud.
Then enable RUN on the DFAM and press play on your DAW. You might have to do some trial and error with the levels but when set up correctly save this as a template and it should work perfectly moving forward.
If you happen to use Logic, I've built this before in the past, happy to share it.
Fragility1420
New Member
Thanks so much for the detailed response. Really appreciate your time.
Good to know about the MS-20! I'm glad I didn't spend a whole night trying to figure it out.
The MPC1000 doesn't have anything CV-related unfortunately.
I don't have any other Eurorack gear, but those hardware modules look interesting. And yes, I'm borrowing the DFAM for now, but it might very well turn into a borrow-to-buy situation, especially if I can get it to sync with the MPC or with Logic.
On that note, before I pull the trigger on the MAFD, I will definitely try the Logic trick. If you don't mind sharing that template, I'd appreciate it!
Again, thanks a lot for your help.
Good to know about the MS-20! I'm glad I didn't spend a whole night trying to figure it out.
The MPC1000 doesn't have anything CV-related unfortunately.
I don't have any other Eurorack gear, but those hardware modules look interesting. And yes, I'm borrowing the DFAM for now, but it might very well turn into a borrow-to-buy situation, especially if I can get it to sync with the MPC or with Logic.
On that note, before I pull the trigger on the MAFD, I will definitely try the Logic trick. If you don't mind sharing that template, I'd appreciate it!
Again, thanks a lot for your help.
wing
Active Member
Sure thing! It's a pretty straightforward template, attached below. It contains two sync tracks, labelled (regular) as in regular time (whatever your project tempo is set to) and then there is half-time available as an alternative, in case you want the DFAM to run at half speed you can use that one instead. The regions are looped but if you need them longer you can simply drag them out. There's also an audio track ready for DFAM input to record. You can import the tracks you need into your projects.
I set the sync tracks to currently No Output because otherwise it might default to your speakers and it's pretty loud and obnoxious to listen to. DFAM loves it but not good for human hearing so be careful you set the output to an audio interfaces separate line out which you are not monitoring with speakers (or headphones, be extra careful!).
Once routed directly to the DFAM's ADV/CLOCK input, note that you have to prepare the DFAM first before you press play in Logic - press the RUN/START (red) button. If I recall when something is plugged into ADV/CLOCK the DFAM will not actually start as it is awaiting a clock. Then you want to make sure to press ADVANCE (button next to RUN/START) until the sequence lights up I believe at the very last one in the sequence (#8). Or it might be the first. Been a minute but I think it's the last because it needs some "pre-roll" to sync correctly so you might need to play around.
The annoying kicker here is that if you stop playing in Logic, DFAM doesn't know that it needs to reset the sequence. If you press play again it will resume where it left off anywhere in the sequence. In order to have it sync you'll have to reset the sequence using ADVANCE every single time (the other modules I mentioned allow you to trigger run/start as well solving this issue, but I haven't found a way using this method).
In order to sync this together with your MPC, if that has midi or usb then you could sync Logic I believe in the midi project settings menu, there's a clock sync tab for devices etc. I've had the DFAM successfully sync with multiple devices in my studio so it's possible for sure.
It might require some trial & error but it should work pretty easily. Good luck!
Fragility1420
New Member
Thank you so much for the template, and for all the additional tips.
Looking forward to opening it up and getting the DFAM involved in some projects!
Looking forward to opening it up and getting the DFAM involved in some projects!
