Apple Vision Pro (VR/AR) announced at WWDC 23

wing said:

Thanks for sharing your review. But I'm curious, what is the point of this movie theater thing specifically? I tried an Oculus years ago and you could watch a movie as if you're in a theater, and looking away from the "screen" you could see seats, shadowy audience members, popcorn in your lap. I suppose I never understood this since you can go to a theater if you really want, but as a filmmaker I'd think the focus should really be on the screen and story, not looking at seats around you - why wouldn't one just watch on a TV in their home?

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Apple's implementation doesn't go as far as the Oculus - there are no seats, etc. The biggest difference with watching on your TV is that the virtual screen can be much bigger, unless you have a very large TV that you sit very close to. If you don't like wearing headphones while watching at night (or whenever you need quiet), the sound from the Vision Pro is surprisingly good, and quiet enough that people in another room probably won't hear it (probably not good if they're sleeping next to you, though). Also, 3D movies look better than in the theater, because you're not using glasses that cut ½ of the light to each eye.

The big downside, of course, is that it's a single-person experience, and I don't see a time when a group of people in the same room would each wear a headset to watch the same movie, no matter how much cheaper it gets - you'd just watch a TV instead. On the other hand, if you and a friend/relative hundreds or thousands of miles away could share a virtual theater experience (complete with Persona avatars) and communicate easily during a movie, that would be much more immersive than the current SharePlay experience via FaceTime.

newbreednet said:

Presumably this:

and yes, it's horrific

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Absolutely horrifying!

TR909sample said:

This short video that I came across is the best video so far that I've seen that quickly and effectively shows the potential of the Vision Pro for a home set up. This looks pretty impressive, in my opinion.

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But imagine how many real screens you could plaster around your appartment for 3500$ without having to wear vr goggles all day and disconnecting your eyes entirely from reality.

wing said:

It's too young to tell but I wonder if the computer setup will create health issues down the line

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I couldn't find definitive information on whether the AVP has varifocal displays that adjust to your eyes, but I expect it has a fixed focal distance. In my experience looking at virtual things for a long time, that aren't exactly at the fixed focal distance in virtual space, will lead to trouble focusing correctly on things in the real world. If you use these as monitor replacements the whole day, you're training your brain to override the learned relationship between vergence and focal distance. I would be very careful with that if anyone here wants to give the virtual screen usecase a serious go. Make sure you keep the virtual screen distance as close as possible to the focus distance of the optics to minimize the damage to your brain and monitor diligently whether you experience issues when not wearing the headset.

Also make sure you still get enough daylight into your eyes, it doesn't count if it's just "filmed" via passthrough and could lead to depression if people miss out on too much of their normal daylight hours. (Not talking to you specifically, just in general terms for the 1 or 2 people here who might seriously consider using this thing for many hours per day).

wing said:

seems like quite a lot of craning one's neck about in extreme ways to see all those different screens. Doing that several hours a day I wonder if that will do a number on one's neck and also eyes...

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I could see the added weight being a problem, but in general, movements - as long as they are ergonomic - are better than sitting still.

wing said:

Thanks for sharing your review. But I'm curious, what is the point of this movie theater thing specifically? I tried an Oculus years ago and you could watch a movie as if you're in a theater, and looking away from the "screen" you could see seats, shadowy audience members, popcorn in your lap. I suppose I never understood this since you can go to a theater if you really want, but as a filmmaker I'd think the focus should really be on the screen and story, not looking at seats around you - why wouldn't one just watch on a TV in their home?

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Yeah, I don't get that either. I think it must be an attempt at preying on nostalgia or creating a "comfy" atmosphere for people. When I was watching movies on my oculus headsets I always wanted to lie down and assume the most comfortable posture and that is automatically incompatible with virtual cinemas, so I had to select the "void" option where you just have a freely movable screen floating in pitch black space. From the ergonomics side that was the best for me and there were no distractions in the environment. I always wanted to give that "virtual cinema" experience a go just to try it once, but it never was appealing enough to actually go for it.

So during the lockdowns of 2020/21, I was lucky enough to have an Oculus Quest 1, and spent countless hours in an app called "BigScreen VR". It's a social VR app ostensibly centered around a movie-theater sized screen in theater environment, but there are other environments too such as a lounge, apartment complex balcony, etc. Every day there were new people to meet and join in the silly, giddy fun of being in a movie theater except I'm really just sitting at home. I made some real friends there, too. It was *amazing* to have that social interaction and sense of going somewhere outside the house during that time when we weren't able to do that in the real world.

So for me the whole point of the "cinema recreation" was exactly that - there is a lobby outside where you can meet and chat with other people, you can spawn infinite boxes of popcorn, (or soda, or tomatoes) to throw around. It's very unlike normal real-life cinema etiquette! (You can mute others if you're trying to concentrate on the movie playing.)

We were lucky in those 2020 days, there seemed to be a very active "room host" who was queuing up movies what seemed like 24/7. So all we had to do was turn up and the entertainment was already there. It was probably a legal grey area; yet the app still exists to this day and there are still free movies being shown there.

newbreednet said:

So during the lockdowns of 2020/21, I was lucky enough to have an Oculus Quest 1, and spent countless hours in an app called "BigScreen VR". It's a social VR app ostensibly centered around a movie-theater sized screen in theater environment, but there are other environments too such as a lounge, apartment complex balcony, etc. Every day there were new people to meet and join in the silly, giddy fun of being in a movie theater except I'm really just sitting at home. I made some real friends there, too. It was *amazing* to have that social interaction and sense of going somewhere outside the house during that time when we weren't able to do that in the real world.

So for me the whole point of the "cinema recreation" was exactly that - there is a lobby outside where you can meet and chat with other people, you can spawn infinite boxes of popcorn, (or soda, or tomatoes) to throw around. It's very unlike normal real-life cinema etiquette! (You can mute others if you're trying to concentrate on the movie playing.)

We were lucky in those 2020 days, there seemed to be a very active "room host" who was queuing up movies what seemed like 24/7. So all we had to do was turn up and the entertainment was already there. It was probably a legal grey area; yet the app still exists to this day and there are still free movies being shown there.

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I use BigScreen VR to meet up with a friend of mine who lives in Kansas. (She used to live in New York like me.) We watch movies on the big screen and hang out. I am the host, and so far I've been able to present movies from any channel that I have access to on my computer. I was always happy with my Quest 2, but now that I have a Quest 3 the visuals and sound are much better. But you can always hook up whatever headphones you want.

There are numerous rooms that are being hosted at all times. A lot of free 3D. There's a FB group that gives me a heads-up on when movies start. One big problem is that the rooms can only host a total of 15 people at the same time. So if you're late--you can't go in. In BigScreen you can sit in practically any seat in the house--just point to another seat and you're there.

For me the killer app for the Quest is exercise. That's why I got it. There is something called Supernatural that I love, but there are many other good ones, including Les Mills. And you can get a workout from rhythm games like Beat Saber.

At this point, a Quest 2 goes for around $100 on eBay. But you always end up spending more on VR headsets for accessories.

Reid Rosefelt said:

But you always end up spending more on VR headsets for accessories.

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But they make it so much better! BoboVR M2-Plus for $100 = halo strap for amazing comfort (can wear it for hours) + magnetic battery attachment at the back of the headstrap + spare battery that sits on a magnetic charging dock = endless battery

Once third-party headstraps become available for AVP they'll finally be able to catch up with the comfort that Quest users have had for years hahaha

Had to share this it's too funny

wing said:

But I'm curious, what is the point of this movie theater thing specifically? ... - why wouldn't one just watch on a TV in their home?

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It's the sense of full immersion. You can put the headset on and, together with noise-canceling Airpod Pros, you can be immediately transported to a totally different environment - and the sense of scale is pretty mind-blowing. It's just like having your own personal IMAX that you can summon up wherever you are, from a tiny messy apartment to a plane.

As a content consumption device, the Vision Pro is amazing. As a work tool, I'm not so sure.

rnb_2 said:

I honestly didn't notice the weight at all, which surprised me in hindsight - I kept reading that it's heavy, but realized afterward that I never thought about the weight at all.

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After 4 days, in my experience it's fine for the first couple of hours, but it becomes very noticeable after that, on your brow in particular. Apparently the alternative head strap is much more comfortable, but I haven't even unpacked that yet as I'm still not sure whether I'm keeping or returning it.

Virtuoso said:

I haven't even unpacked that yet as I'm still not sure whether I'm keeping or returning it.

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What else could or would you do with 3500$ and how many hours would you feel like you need to use the AVP to have gotten "your money's worth"?

MartinH. said:

What else could or would you do with 3500$ and how many hours would you feel like you need to use the AVP to have gotten "your money's worth"?

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It's the 1TB model, so it's actually $4300 inc tax! The decision isn't based on cost though - if I could use it for work, with multiple virtual high res screens on my existing setup, it would be a no-brainer, but it just has too many restrictions in this version.

Apple released an accessory which allows to connect the Vision Pro to a Mac with a USB-C cable.



It's only for developers though and you lose the right speaker...


Maybe another iteration of the product will come with a TB port though.

Edit:

No you still get a right speaker!

Virtuoso said:

It's the 1TB model, so it's actually $4300 inc tax! The decision isn't based on cost though

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Wow... you rich people really must think differently than us little guys. ^_^'

MartinH. said:

Wow... you rich people really must think differently than us little guys. ^_^'

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It’s just a work expense and in the video production world, $4k is nothing - roughly the equipment rental cost for a small half day corporate shoot.

If it could take the place of 3 XDR monitors it would be a bargain, but sadly that’s not the case yet. Maybe in a few versions time if they improve connectivity - as the article above points out, it’s pretty lame that the ‘developer strap’ still only enables USB2 speeds, when all current Macs have TB4 ports.

Pier said:

Apple released an accessory which allows to connect the Vision Pro to a Mac with a USB-C cable.

It's only for developers though and you lose the right speaker...

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are you sure about that? From the article:

"both straps are audio straps, as both contain the same right speaker with spatial audio capabilities."

In my dream …

Imagine I could wear Slate VSX wearing these. Then I could interact with the studio and hear it at the same time.

Or a reverb program where I can walk around the space and hear what the instrument sounds like there.

Imagine virtual instruments … like a Theramin that I could not only play … but also record it into Logic.

Imagine an orchestra that I could conduct …

Better yet imagine I could record a tempo track in Logic for a song like I was conducting it.

Just dreaming ….

newbreednet said:

are you sure about that? From the article:

"both straps are audio straps, as both contain the same right speaker with spatial audio capabilities."

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Oh my mistake!

bvaughn0402 said:

Imagine virtual instruments … like a Theramin that I could not only play … but also record it into Logic.

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Since Apple were keen to introduce "touch" instruments when Garageband for iPad came out in 2011, I'm sure we'll see "spatial" instruments for a hypothetical Apple Vision DAW! It might take a few years until they see it as being worthwhile, though.

bvaughn0402 said:

Imagine an orchestra that I could conduct …

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There is a VR app (can't remember the name right now) that I had on the Quest that didn't let me conduct but did let me walk around an orchestral stage with all the instruments in place, which was a very interesting experience in itself. There's also another app called "Maestro VR" for Steam/PCVR that does let you conduct but I've never tried it because it has awful reviews.

Still, all things in good time! It's good to dream!

Virtuoso said:

It's the 1TB model, so it's actually $4300 inc tax! The decision isn't based on cost though - if I could use it for work, with multiple virtual high res screens on my existing setup, it would be a no-brainer, but it just has too many restrictions in this version.

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Yeah, the only way I think it could be justified for a Mac user is if you're currently using multiple Spaces in Mission Control, and most of those could be moved to native Vision Pro apps (or the iPad equivalent, if available) so that you just have one Mac screen, plus an array of Vision Pro app windows around you. This is (mostly) my current setup, but I still can't justify it for the cost, much as I'd like to. If you need multiple Mac screens, this isn't going to satisfy that need at this point.

rnb_2 said:

If you need multiple Mac screens, this isn't going to satisfy that need at this point.

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On Macrumors yesterday, they had a story about engineers at Apple that are currently feeding 2 Mac displays to the V pro, so perhaps that's coming in a future software update.

Or maybe, it'll have to wait for the next gen hardware.

newbreednet said:

Since Apple were keen to introduce "touch" instruments when Garageband for iPad came out in 2011, I'm sure we'll see "spatial" instruments for a hypothetical Apple Vision DAW! It might take a few years until they see it as being worthwhile, though.

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The first spatial instrument for the Vision Pro that I'm aware of is the Animoog Galaxy.

For me, I would love it to be able to travel around the world without leaving my living room. It would need to add smellovision and weather - okay, maybe not actual rain and snow, but a little wind, heat/cold, something like that. I would probably pay $3500 for that. Because there is no way I am climbing Mount Everest, but it would be nice to pretend.