As I wrote, if I were able to play in keyboard parts well enough not to require so much editing I'd use only Pro Tools. It's great for audio knick-knacks. They got the editing interface right 25 years ago, as far as I'm concerned.
This is really why I come to these DAW-wars competitions. I always learn something new about various DAWs, some of which I have and some I don't but might be interested in. I really would lke to replace ProTools as my main DAW, but have problems with every DAW I am tried. This is not to say ProTools is perfect, it is just the one I know best. And? It may just be I need to spend more time learning enough of them all to make a decision.
Yeah that’s similar to what Reaper does, a tied to the timeline version. thanks for the tip there. It’s a comparable workaround to DP11 matching free range tempo, but not being as good in my limited experience as Logics much newer implementation. Of course in end user typical fashion if you’re more into recording live bands then you would want the best of both DAWs. Neither things are major workarounds, DP maybe in my experience has more tools for editing free range tempo tracks, or matching the timeline by hand, but in my limited experience with Logics newer implementation it’s pretty solid without editing.Logic “kinda” have a count in while playing. Just engage the metronome(K shortcut in my case, don’t remember if it’s the default) and instead of pressing play, use “play from previous bar” shortcut if you’ve assigned it to something(hope you did as it’s a very useful shortcut when recording people, whether they need a metronome or not). It will give you a one-bar count-in with metronome. If you need more than one bar, you’re screwed!!
You can have up to 6 bars of count in. (It's in the project settings menu). If I'm understanding you correctly (?), you can also have a click playing whenever the transport is active without needing to choose 'play from previous bar'. The metronome has a dropdown with options, as well as additional options in the project settings menu.Logic “kinda” have a count in while playing. Just engage the metronome(K shortcut in my case, don’t remember if it’s the default) and instead of pressing play, use “play from previous bar” shortcut if you’ve assigned it to something(hope you did as it’s a very useful shortcut when recording people, whether they need a metronome or not). It will give you a one-bar count-in with metronome. If you need more than one bar, you’re screwed!!
That's also incorrect. Your friend has "Enable only while recording" toggled on. Like Logic, you can have a metronome playing whenever Live's transport is running.
You're missing the part about count-in, that is only tied to recording in Live. You can't have a metronome count-in in Live or Bitwig without it being tied to recording.
Multi core off, accuracy Great.
So I followed that Blue Cat thread on KVR, even upgraded to Sonoma after his first post, and I think it's a bit of a red herring. Here's why, I use dozens of plugins on the regular that are not currently Sonoma ready, including the main two that were causing some issues (because of a bad update) Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol. So they don't cause major problems anymore, more largely due to the update than Sonoma, and Blue Cats issue with their own plugins are related to using multi core calls on a single track etc. I'm not seeing personally any major spiking using multi core capable plugins on Apple Silicon, what I see more is some plugins that are unstable in Sonoma. I think I and others are getting caught in a game of whack a mole about an issue that isn't much of one for most of us. Kontakt with multiple instruments in it I don't think is using multiple cores, VEP certainly doesn't have to offloading it's process to a different application even. I haven't noticed any particular multi core possibly using plugin doing anything crazy.See this blog post from BlueCatAudio. They don't feel Sonoma has actually fixed it:
MacOS Sonoma – No Multicore Magic!
[New Update: Realtime Audio Multicore Issues for Apple Silicon: End of the Story?] After a first round of tests when MacOS Sonoma was released, we were very excited by the …www.bluecataudio.com
here is another interesting blog post from him explaining mor about the challenge at hand and the hacks they are attempting to do at blueCatAudio to code around it:
Realtime Audio Multicore Issues for Apple Silicon: End of the Story?
I have recently posted about multicore issues for realtime audio on Apple silicon, because with the release of MacOS 14 (codename Sonoma) including a Graphical User Interface (GUI) bug affecting …www.bluecataudio.com
The problem at hand is mainly related to plugins using multi-core processing inside the plugin, as I understand it...and on MacOS, Apple has created this AudioWorkGroups feature as a way to handle the two core types better, but unfortunately buried a lot of it deep inside the CoreAudio framework, making it difficult for VST to take advantage of it. so it appears that at least in the short term, AU versions of some plugins may in fact out perform VST versions, or at least be more reliable. This appears to mainly be related to plugins using multi-core processing in the plugin, but might also impact VST hosting, I'm not entirely sure at the moment. But its multi-core plugins which might have the random audio drop outs, even when the overall system is not being maxed out...which people have reported far and wide as "random audio drop outs" apparently.
i think they will figure it all out, I don't think we should say VST is permanently doomed. But they will have to figure it out and in the short run it very well may be that Apple Silicon users should prefer AU plugins whenever possible, or consider using BlueCatAudio patchwork to wrap around VST plugins, since he seems to feel he figured out a hack around the issue.
I think it's important to also note, that if Steinberg figures out a solution for this, they will absolutely not apply it to VST2, so...this is one more thing to force people up to VST3 from their perspective, whatever its worth. i think we will see some developments in this area over this year and next year...its just that this new hardware architecture with its benefits, does not line up with certain approaches that have been used for years by audio software developers..and they are all going to have to figure out how to make it all work reliably... It's unfortunate Apple buried their AudioWorkGroups solution deep inside CoreAudio that way, or maybe it's not surprising hhahaha. I wonder how CLAP will fare with all of this, maybe this will be a way for CLAP to finally take over where VST is falling short. But for Cubase users, I think you have to wait for Steinberg to figure it out, and Steinberg will absolutely not provide AU nor CLAP hosting...so....
I think you should attempt the test with multi core on also. That is apparently where problems might come up with random dropouts. It’s not that they will spike, it’s that they will wait, and lead to a drop out. By the way kontakt can use multi cores but you have to turn that pref on, just for testing that is, I agree it’s usually wiser to leave it off. We are just trying to understand the implication of e cores, and non use of Audi work groups
The problem with multi core and Diva existed before the M1 came out though. You get less instances and audio crackling and dropouts pretty quickly using multi core to do a to failure test. Plus the whole issue that Blue Cat were talking about was with VST3 and low CPU conditions. It sounds similar to an issue years ago not involving multi core, but involving power down states in Intel Westlake chips. When hit suddenly with a high CPU situation in a project the chip would not power up in time and cause a dropout, in that case only the first time.
There's absolutely no reason to get hostile. Blue Cat gave very specific conditions for their issue, it's not endemic, and like I mentioned, what is more endemic is spiking plugins likely due to not being tested on the latest OS's. There's also more than one reason why Logic might be only using P cores, reasons that might have nothing to do with the OS's ability to manage them, or Blue Cats issues with multi core capable VST3's. Plus like I mentioned, flatly we are shooting in the dark here, all I can do is provide the results I see, there's not a single reason for me to pull the wool over you or anyone else's eyes. From what I recall you're not on Apple Silicon or Sonoma, so I'm doing what I can to let you know the results I see with as much flat methodology as possible.
Lol just the wording "calling bunk in your claim", it's a bit hostile. Like, no you calm down man. I'm working on it OK?
Tests incoming.
