dylanmixer
Senior Member
Yeesh, right over my head! I should know better than to go on VI Control before I've had my coffee.
Why did you leave Cubase?
- Thread starter Pier
- Start date
LostintheBardo
Member
I've only had Cubase for about 10 days but the more I get into it the more I wonder if the people saying it's clunky and takes at least 2 clicks to do things every other DAW does in one never bothered to setup their own key commands?
No, it is because many things require extra key clicks compared to other DAWs. For one, many dialog windows will not toggle open/close with a single command, highlight relevant text fields for entry when opened, or allow tabbing between fields. ProTools has excellent dialog window navigation and modifier key use. Studio One is kind of headed that way, but maybe not. Cubase went the other direction when they revamped the Add Tracks window. Other dialogs lost tab-functionality (at least on Windows) around Nuendo/Cubase 8 or 9.
I setup a very detailed, well thought out custom key command set, attempting to emulate the best of other DAWs - navigating tracks and events, editing, fades, midi, edit windows open/close, etc. My goal was to be as efficient as possible, with as few key commands and mouse clicks as possible.
My general editing and track navigation in Nuendo is at least as fast (maybe faster) than any other DAW and most Nuendo/Cubase users have. ProTools is still very fast for audio editing and mixing, so I consider the two apples/oranges.
But there were still many things in Nuendo, such as dialogs to transpose, setup the project, etc that required clicking fields, clicking "Enter/apply", etc. In the end, the time savings were still offset by unnecessary workflow interruptions.
Also note that this does vary between Windows and OSX. I ran Nuendo on a PC for years, and the inability to toggle windows open/closed with the same key command drove me away. I begged for this "feature" for years, but nothing ever changed. But now working on a Mac some key commands do toggle (likely part of OSX, not Cubase/Nuendo).
So it may depend on where we use Cubase/ Nuendo. I still find it clunky in some ways, though I use Nuendo for some projects. It just depends on what you want to do, how you want to do it, and what you consider a valid annoyance vs. worthwhile tradeoff. Cubase and Nuendo are excellent DAWs, and not one DAW is perfect. Nothing wrong with loving Cubase, or Logic, DP, PT, Studio One, etc. It is great to have options.
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Jimbo 88
Active Member
Yes, Cakewalk has it best. The Key Editor (Or Piano Roll View in Cake) opens up with the list of tracks on the right. You never have to leave Piano Roll View when composing. You can jump between tracks, make tracks shadow in the background, edit one track only, or as many tracks as you'd like at one time. I absolutely love it and I can work fast.
In Cubase I have to constantly exit out of the clip I'm in then click into the next clip even if it's on the same track. I'm constantly "gluing". You have to be careful as it is very easy to be working in a clip with midi data that is not being used...the part you really want is in another clip. Painful. If I want to work on 2 different clips at once, if they don't line up correctly in Cubase you might be in for some trouble.
If you use Cubase every day, yes learn every KC you can find that will benefit your workflow.
Then learn and set up your global and project specific Workspaces.
Then integrate as many of those KCs into a macro to further benefit your workflow. Some very common functions to integrate with whatever would be focus issues like bring to front, or focus on 1 of the 4 mix consoles, or editors.
Then take a few weeks time out, and learn how to use the Logical Editor, and Project Logical Editor. Look at the examples provided, find the examples that you think benefit you, then modify those factory presets. That's how you start to learn the LE and PLE.
Then take the LE and PLE presets you have created, and either set them as a KC or add them to a macro.
Then buy the basic version of Metagrid unless you really feel you need Pro. If you don't have an iPad, just buy an old one because Metagird works on very old versions. Then set up Metagrid buttons for everything you just created above including Workspaces. In some situations, you may find the Metagrid custom pauses beneficial when executing a Cubase macro, since Cubase has no pause between commands. You will most likely end up still using the most common KCs on your keyboard, but with customized buttons and user sets, Metagrid will enhance your workflow greatly.
I would avoid Stream Deck unless you fully understand the differences between it and Metagrid. Streamdeck is not a substitute for Metagrid.
Yes. It's an old foundation that now takes more time than it should to improve upon. Did you notice there is not even a KC for "enter?"
I think that's part of the reason different DAWs exist for different user groups. Cubase is probably the most feature-rich DAW. But being feature-rich is a 2-edged sword.
There is no need for one. "Enter" is a universal command in the OS and all applications. For text entry, it sends "end of line", then "return". For commands, the return character is read as a signal to execute the associated command (dialog window, "Transpose" window, etc).
When combining KCs into a Cubase macro, there are lots of Cubase KC operations that prompt the user to press OK...or "enter" before further operations are executed and completed. Otherwise your macro is worthless because it will be "stuck" with the OK prompt.
If you can demonstrate a work-around for these macros, I would love to see it.
By the way, "enter" exists as a command in Metagrid. That (and maybe the custom delay) is the reason anyone can run certain Cubase macros in Metagrid that they can't in Cubase alone.
Markus Kohlprath
Senior Member
Why is that?
You didn't say, or I didn't see that you were referring to macros. I thought you were suggesting needing a secondary key command for "enter" when enter itself is a default key command.
For macros, Cubase automatically applies some commands, but not all dialog windows, especially those with selections or text entry fields, and this is where having a common design/functionality standard for tabbing, selecting text-entry fields, might have made this possible (though it could get tricky with window focus). That is what I was referring to previously.
You can circumvent this in some cases with the PLE or Logical Editor for Midi, but text fields and variables are still a limitation - you have to hard code the script to do whatever you want. The PLE and LE will execute within the macro without a command for "Apply", but other dialog windows can not.
For example, look at the Midi Transpose dialog. This is the one I've used for years as an example in my requests to Steinberg:
1 - We used to be able to tab between fields, so when you opened "Transpose" with midi selected, all you had to do was type a number, tab down to apply, and hit "enter".
2 - If Cubase followed the design asthetic of ProTools, enter would be read as a global "apply" command for each dialog window. You wouldn't have to tab to it. (And PT uses modifier keys to select different drop down fields making track setup, for example, a breeze).
3 - For Macros, yes, Cubase would need an additional "Enter" command within the macro editor, but also "Tab" to tab to the Apply button, and a text entry option - this does popup for some dialogs (try it with "Add Track - Midi"), but like you said, you are stuck there in the macro until you enter something, and dialogs without text entry are still an issue - such as Transpose because "Apply" isn't a global command for dialog windows, a la ProTools.
I honestly don't see either 2 or 3 ever happening. They've been requested for years, and not only did they never happen, we lost what little functionality we had (tab in some windows, etc).
Your best option is to get creative with the PLE and LE scripts, and you can do quite a lot there. While both are great for specific functions, this doesn't really solve the basic dialog handling problems that shouldn't require a macro workaround.
And if you are on Mac, of course Keyboard Maestro can circumvent many of these command/execute limitations, with the downside that it is slightly slower (esp. complex macros), than a straight key command or macro within Cubase.
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JyTy
Music is Magic
I left for some nice and shiny features newer DAWs have...
but the more I use Cubase and the more I learn it, the more I see it get things done! Might be a bit more complicated than in other DAWS but feature wise it is a packed with options... I'm discovering new and better approaches all the time. And yeah setting up my own macros and key comands and slowly developing my stream deck template made things 10 times more enjoyable as well.
So now I'm mostly working with Cubase again and rarely open other DAWs at all (have Logic and StudioOne, tried Ableton for a brief while and even though I'm a developer and a very tehnical person Reaper seemed like unnesecary self inflicting pain :D )
but the more I use Cubase and the more I learn it, the more I see it get things done! Might be a bit more complicated than in other DAWS but feature wise it is a packed with options... I'm discovering new and better approaches all the time. And yeah setting up my own macros and key comands and slowly developing my stream deck template made things 10 times more enjoyable as well.
So now I'm mostly working with Cubase again and rarely open other DAWs at all (have Logic and StudioOne, tried Ableton for a brief while and even though I'm a developer and a very tehnical person Reaper seemed like unnesecary self inflicting pain :D )
Metagrid is designed specifically for DAWs. Stream Deck is not as shipped.
This is a general and basic tutorial of Metagrid with Cubase.
I don't even use the Pro version because I'm not interested in the additional features. Also, IMO it's best to configure Metagrid to the way you work and think instead of obtaining a template. User created templates are nice, but not always the best because everyone works a bit different.
Its probably best to look at different tutorials to understand further differences.
My apologies! While I use a few buttons on Metagrid that duplicate a single KC, most of mine are macros, or macros with the logical editor and workspaces.
I agree with everything you said.
Yes a huge frustration. However, IMO, looking at the competition the LE &PLE is still far ahead of other DAW features. It's good...we just want it better.
LOL. Is your first name Dedric? sp?
Anyway, yes this is going down a rat hole..sorry. It seems to me as DAWs evolve, the masses want quick and easy. With a DAW like Cubase, to go quick and easy will require what has been discussed. You got over 1,000 page manual.
You got this:https://cubaseindex.com/
You got this:https://download.steinberg.net/cubase-on-youtube/index.html (be patient and it's good up to 2 years ago)
Learn whatever DAW and create!
Markus Kohlprath
Senior Member
Thank you. I'll take a look at Metagrid. I use an ipad with Lemur for midi and keyswitch tasks and two Streamdecks for CB keycommands. What is cool with the Streamdeck is you can programm a set of keycommands similar to makros very easily for one button and name it. So it's easy to find commands you don't use often without having to remember where it is or how the kc goes.
For me it is also much better to set up my environment myself than using templates.
You're welcome.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prezemek was one of the guys behind Lemur and maybe learned what not to do when designing Metagrid?
Personally, I don't care for all the additional functions the pro version has over the basic version. For example, if you want sliders for stuff, then only the Pro version has that. As you probably know to survive in this business you never stop and call it finished until you retire or sell the business. I just have the basic Metagrid ($29) IIRC, and over the years it's worked fabulous for me.
Setting up your evneiornment or Scenes as metagrid calls it, is very easy. Set it up based on the way you work and think. It's a continual evolving process where you are always continuing to improve your workflow based on your objectives.
Everyone who switched to S1 ? How does it handle large projects ? I heard complains multiple times that S1 doesn't handle large projects well.
I tried switching from Cubase to S1 but these things in S1 I just couldn't stand:
Tiny send faders,
Double click to open plugin,
Overdubbed midi always merges with the other midi region.
I tried switching from Cubase to S1 but these things in S1 I just couldn't stand:
Tiny send faders,
Double click to open plugin,
Overdubbed midi always merges with the other midi region.
