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Waves Mixcentric, Voxengo Teote, The God Particle ?

SupremeFist said:
I think it starts to sound artificial very quickly when allowed to boost frequencies by more than 1.5dB or so. But using it only to cut (with FX only at around 20-25% or so) tightens and clarifies the sound very nicely to my ears.
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Does teote act a bit like soothe when doing this?
 
Hockey1 said:
Do you guys use it on buses or single tracks too? When are you doing this? And how?
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Whenever you consider adding an effect to a track, to a group, or to the mix bus, you should always ask: "What am I trying to accomplish, and will this plugin help with that?"

The effects you use in a mix and the moves you make, are entirely dependent on the musical arrangement, the sounds and instruments, the mood or intent of the track, and your overall goals for the mix. Whenever you use a plugin, you need to have a good reason for adding it to your mix.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer in mixing.

Let's say you have a synth bass track. Don't just automatically add compression, or a "recommended" EQ preset, or an automated plugin like Teote. Listen first to the bass part within the context of the mix, and ask yourself if it's missing something, does it sound uneven, does it have too much energy in a certain frequency range, is it competing with other instruments, etc...

If you detect problems with it, then take the necessary steps to correct them. EQ can be used to tame or boost selected frequencies, compression can be used to even out the sound, collisions with other instruments can be addressed by modifying the arrangement, etc. Most mixing problems can usually be solved just with EQ and/or compression. Nothing more is necessary.

Also, listen to each track in isolation to identify problem frequencies in the source. A lot of sample libraries, especially strings and brass, have built-in artifacts and anomalies that need to be addressed with surgical EQ cuts. Listen for harsh frequencies or heavy buildup in the low-mids and gently notch these. An automated plugin cannot do this for you adequately - not even Soothe or Gulfoss. You need to use your ears.


As I've mentioned in previous posts, I like to use Teote on the mix bus, but only to make very minor corrections. If I see it working hard to modify the EQ curve, I'll go back to the mix and make the necessary changes to individual tracks and groups. In this way, Teote acts more like a "mix checker" for me, rather than a "mix fixer".

Ultimately, you should try to use as few plugins as possible when mixing. Nearly everything you need to achieve a good mix can be acomplished with your DAW's stock EQ and compression plugins. People were creating stellar mixes long before plugins like Teote, Gullfoss, Soothe, God Particle, etc. were available.

Based on some of the questions you've been asking, I would recommend taking a mixing course on Groove3 or Udemy, or watch some reputable mixing tutorials on YouTube. This will help you far more in the long run than throwing more plugins at your mixes. Trust me - I went down this path myself years ago - I used to think fancy plugins were the way to get great mixes. They're not. All I needed was to get some basic knowledge of mixing techniques and to develop and trust my ears.

Good luck and have fun!!
 
NekujaK said:
Whenever you consider adding an effect to a track, to a group, or to the mix bus, you should always ask: "What am I trying to accomplish, and will this plugin help with that?"

The effects you use in a mix and the moves you make, are entirely dependent on the musical arrangement, the sounds and instruments, the mood or intent of the track, and your overall goals for the mix. Whenever you use a plugin, you need to have a good reason for adding it to your mix.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer in mixing.

Let's say you have a synth bass track. Don't just automatically add compression, or a "recommended" EQ preset, or an automated plugin like Teote. Listen first to the bass part within the context of the mix, and ask yourself if it's missing something, does it sound uneven, does it have too much energy in a certain frequency range, is it competing with other instruments, etc...

If you detect problems with it, then take the necessary steps to correct them. EQ can be used to tame or boost selected frequencies, compression can be used to even out the sound, collisions with other instruments can be addressed by modifying the arrangement, etc. Most mixing problems can usually be solved just with EQ and/or compression. Nothing more is necessary.

Also, listen to each track in isolation to identify problem frequencies in the source. A lot of sample libraries, especially strings and brass, have built-in artifacts and anomalies that need to be addressed with surgical EQ cuts. Listen for harsh frequencies or heavy buildup in the low-mids and gently notch these. An automated plugin cannot do this for you adequately - not even Soothe or Gulfoss. You need to use your ears.


As I've mentioned in previous posts, I like to use Teote on the mix bus, but only to make very minor corrections. If I see it working hard to modify the EQ curve, I'll go back to the mix and make the necessary changes to individual tracks and groups. In this way, Teote acts more like a "mix checker" for me, rather than a "mix fixer".

Ultimately, you should try to use as few plugins as possible when mixing. Nearly everything you need to achieve a good mix can be acomplished with your DAW's stock EQ and compression plugins. People were creating stellar mixes long before plugins like Teote, Gullfoss, Soothe, God Particle, etc. were available.

Based on some of the questions you've been asking, I would recommend taking a mixing course on Groove3 or Udemy, or watch some reputable mixing tutorials on YouTube. This will help you far more in the long run than throwing more plugins at your mixes. Trust me - I went down this path myself years ago - I used to think fancy plugins were the way to get great mixes. They're not. All I needed was to get some basic knowledge of mixing techniques and to develop and trust my ears.

Good luck and have fun!!
Click to expand...
Thank you! Yeah I watch lots of mixing tutorials. Will check out what you mentioned.

But still, sometimes I guess it’s ok to try something and see if it improves things, right?
I mean I‘m a beginner, so I do this all the time.

So what are you guys hearing to decide to throw Teote on?

Same for compressors on many individual tracks. I was just watching a tutorial and he threw compressors on everything.
I mean I would like to achieve a compatible loudness, so I guess there’s no way around compressing a lot.

Would be cool if you could tell me when you personally use them.
 
Hockey1 said:
Thank you! Yeah I watch lots of mixing tutorials. Will check out what you mentioned.

But still, sometimes I guess it’s ok to try something and see if it improves things, right?
I mean I‘m a beginner, so I do this all the time.

So what are you guys hearing to decide to throw Teote on?

Same for compressors on many individual tracks. I was just watching a tutorial and he threw compressors on everything.
I mean I would like to achieve a compatible loudness, so I guess there’s no way around compressing a lot.

Would be cool if you could tell me when you personally use them.
Click to expand...
A plugin is simply a solution to a problem. To know when to use a plugin, you need to know two things:

1) What's the problem that needs to be solved?
2) Which plugin can be used to solve the problem?

To know the answer to #2, you need to understand what each plugin is capable of, and how it works.

Everytime you reach for a plugin, you should be asking yourself why do I need this plugin here? What problem am I trying to solve?

I can tell you that I like to use Teote on the mix bus, but the specific mix problems I'm trying to solve with Teote may not be the same ones you're trying to solve. You need to LISTEN to your mix and determine if and where EQ, compression, or something else, can help.

Hopefully, the guy who throws compressors on everything has a good reason for doing it, and understands compression well enough to know how to use it to achieve the result he wants. Either that, or he's full of s*** :grin:

There are no rules in mixing. You are free to do anything you like to achieve the sound you want. Plugins are simply tools that help shape sound. It's up to you to decide when and where to use them. But you need to understand the basic fundamentals of how the plugins work to use them effectively. And that's where taking a course in mixing will help immensely.
 
NekujaK said:
A plugin is simply a solution to a problem. To know when to use a plugin, you need to know two things:

1) What's the problem that needs to be solved?
2) Which plugin can be used to solve the problem?

To know the answer to #2, you need to understand what each plugin is capable of, and how it works.

Everytime you reach for a plugin, you should be asking yourself why do I need this plugin here? What problem am I trying to solve?

I can tell you that I like to use Teote on the mix bus, but the specific mix problems I'm trying to solve with Teote may not be the same ones you're trying to solve. You need to LISTEN to your mix and determine if and where EQ, compression, or something else, can help.

Hopefully, the guy who throws compressors on everything has a good reason for doing it, and understands compression well enough to know how to use it to achieve the result he wants. Either that, or he's full of s*** :grin:

There are no rules in mixing. You are free to do anything you like to achieve the sound you want. Plugins are simply tools that help shape sound. It's up to you to decide when and where to use them. But you need to understand the basic fundamentals of how the plugins work to use them effectively. And that's where taking a course in mixing will help immensely.
Click to expand...
I think that guy who I watched is pretty experienced. Still using compressors all over the mix is a Mystery to me and I don’t really understand why people do this. For live instruments I get it, but that’s it.
Maybe you could explain this to me?
 
Hockey1 said:
I think that guy who I watched is pretty experienced. Still using compressors all over the mix is a Mystery to me and I don’t really understand why people do this. For live instruments I get it, but that’s it.
Maybe you could explain this to me?
Click to expand...
I don't claim to know everything about compression, so there are probably other folks who can answer this better, but here's what I can offer...

Compression is a very powerful effect that can modify sound in a number of ways. The most obvious is to tame peaks in volume, as well as increasing the volume of quieter sounds (referred to as expanding or upwards compression). Compression can also be used yo affect the behavior of transients and/or the sustain of a sound.

I know of several pro engineers who are big proponents of parallel compression. I believe Andrew Schepps is one of the more notable ones. Parallel compression, or simply using a compressor with a mix knob, lets you regulate how much of the unprocessed signal is blended with the compressed signal. A key benefit is that the characteristics and dynamics of the original signal are preserved while also being enhanced by the compressed signal.

Armed with these capabilities, it's conceivable that applying the right type and amount of compression to tracks in a mix can help to enhance and shape the overall sound of the mix. But you need to know what you're doing and understand the affect compression will have on a track. It all goes back to answering the question of what problem am I trying to solve in the mix, and is a compressor the right tool to solve it.

The most important thing is to have a solid understanding of how compression can affect sound. Lucky for us, Gregory Scott makes some of the best mixing videos on the web, and in this one, he lets us hear the different ways compression can affect a mix:



I highly recommend all of Gregory's videos. No hype, no nonsense. Just the real deal.

Hope this helps a little.
 
Hockey1 said:
I think that guy who I watched is pretty experienced. Still using compressors all over the mix is a Mystery to me and I don’t really understand why people do this. For live instruments I get it, but that’s it.
Maybe you could explain this to me?
Click to expand...
I just took this course "Compression Fundamentals" by ProducerTech ($12.50 on pluginboutique) and I can recommend it. It starts from basics and takes you through compression, parallel compression, multi-band compression, and then shows how to apply them in a mix. It shows you each parameter, what effect it has, and when you might want to apply that effect. I really like how it offers a brief history of compression which gives just the right amount of context. I definitely feel like I understand much more of what I read about compressors. (But it doesn't cover Dynamic EQ, which is next for me).

www.pluginboutique.com

Compression Fundamentals

Compression Fundamentals, Compression Fundamentals plugin, buy Compression Fundamentals, download Compression Fundamentals trial, Producertech Compression Fundamentals
www.pluginboutique.com www.pluginboutique.com
 
There's a lot reasons why you might compress something. Here are different reasons, or ways you might think about compression outside of it being a dynamic utility... Like any skill it takes time & experience to understand how & when you might want to apply them...

A). 'Gluing' something together, (this typically needs no introduction, it's one of the 1st concepts you tend to learn...): Gluing typically makes single instruments, groups of instruments, or a mix feel more cohesive. Multiple instruments will feel more like they're a single, cohesive sonic organism, & single instruments will feel like a more solid, cohesive representation of themselves. Layered sounds would be a great example of something you might want to glue together, the goal being to make all of the layers feel like one organism...

B. Adding energy, or enhancing 'performance': This approach tends to help things feel more alive. Quicker release settings tend to exaggerate the natural movement & add energy, (although too fast and things just sound sloppy)... Whereas slower, sustained material may call for a slower release that breathes, or rides the natural envelope. This approach can work wonders for making MIDI sound more lifelike, and less programmed. It's a key concept to understand for smoothing out bumpy legato, because compression tucks in the bumps, which helps it feel more natural. (I'm in no way suggesting this makes up for sloppy programming, actually the opposite... The better the programming the more lifelike something may sound with some tasteful compression)...

C. Pinning something to the front of the mix, or securing it in the background: Compression can be thought of as impacting depth, either pinning something to the front, or securing it in the background... Faster releases tend to make things feel up front, slower, 'gluier' releases tend to make things feel more secured in the background... An example of creating contrasting depth with compression would be applying a quicker, more energetic compression to an ostinato, and a slower, gluier compression to sustains or a top line, securing them behind the ositnato.

D: 'Punch', envelope shaping: Compression can be used to shape (or re-shape) the envelope of something... 'Punch' is a typical example of this concept people are familiar with... E.G. Letting a little transient slip through, emphasizing the attack while tucking in some of the sustain.

E. Parallel compression: There's a lot of reasons why you might use parallel compression... Raising the RMS (perceived average loudness), pulling up low level information, and/or retaining transients, detail, etc. It also sounds different form "wet compression" so it could be applied for contrast, or aesthetic affect.

F: Density: Compression typically creates the impression that something has more density, weight, or feels more solid... Kick drums, low, weighty percussion, and full mixes are examples where you might want to start listening for how compression creates the impression that something has more density compressed vs uncompressed...
 
jcrosby said:
There's a lot reasons why you might compress something. Here are different reasons, or ways you might think about compression outside of it being a dynamic utility... Like any skill it takes time & experience to understand how & when you might want to apply them...

A). 'Gluing' something together, (this typically needs no introduction, it's one of the 1st concepts you tend to learn...): Gluing typically makes single instruments, groups of instruments, or a mix feel more cohesive. Multiple instruments will feel more like they're a single, cohesive sonic organism, & single instruments will feel like a more solid, cohesive representation of themselves. Layered sounds would be a great example of something you might want to glue together, the goal being to make all of the layers feel like one organism...

B. Adding energy, or enhancing 'performance': This approach tends to help things feel more alive. Quicker release settings tend to exaggerate the natural movement & add energy, (although too fast and things just sound sloppy)... Whereas slower, sustained material may call for a slower release that breathes, or rides the natural envelope. This approach can work wonders for making MIDI sound more lifelike, and less programmed. It's a key concept to understand for smoothing out bumpy legato, because compression tucks in the bumps, which helps it feel more natural. (I'm in no way suggesting this makes up for sloppy programming, actually the opposite... The better the programming the more lifelike something may sound with some tasteful compression)...

C. Pinning something to the front of the mix, or securing it in the background: Compression can be thought of as impacting depth, either pinning something to the front, or securing it in the background... Faster releases tend to make things feel up front, slower, 'gluier' releases tend to make things feel more secured in the background... An example of creating contrasting depth with compression would be applying a quicker, more energetic compression to an ostinato, and a slower, gluier compression to sustains or a top line, securing them behind the ositnato.

D: 'Punch', envelope shaping: Compression can be used to shape (or re-shape) the envelope of something... 'Punch' is a typical example of this concept people are familiar with... E.G. Letting a little transient slip through, emphasizing the attack while tucking in some of the sustain.

E. Parallel compression: There's a lot of reasons why you might use parallel compression... Raising the RMS (perceived average loudness), pulling up low level information, and/or retaining transients, detail, etc. It also sounds different form "wet compression" so it could be applied for contrast, or aesthetic affect.

F: Density: Compression typically creates the impression that something has more density, weight, or feels more solid... Kick drums, low, weighty percussion, and full mixes are examples where you might want to start listening for how compression creates the impression that something has more density compressed vs uncompressed...
Click to expand...
Thx a lot! That’s helpful
 
How do you start a mix with TGP?

Not sure if I do it right. I start with the kick and pull it up til the left indicator turns green when the kicks are hitting. Just bottom of that box, but I always struggle with adding my sample after. The kicks always seem too loud after and when I just make the sample louder everything starts to sound a bit over the top.

How are you starting your mixes when you use it for hip hop, or maybe house or electro , techno
 
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