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Three telltale characteristics that scream 'fake' about some digital modelling amps?

I don't disagree

One thing I am wondering about is this new craze for some manufacturers to put one single amp sim into a pedal and sell it for hundreds of dollars. I'm pretty sure its just digital DSP inside...a full blown modeling pedal has many amps, many fx, many cabs, and preset slots to save your presets. Other then mis perception that a pedal is somehow more analog or juicer in some way that defies reason...I have to say I don't like this trend. Yea it probably makes sense for pedal people that love to have a zillion analog pedals on their board and juggle them with their feet...it made a little more sense if and when they were analog electronics inside...but as it goes to more like DSP in a pedal...I don't know I don't really get it. I'd much rather have one expensive modeler with all the amps and cabs and FX in one, and presets for my set list. but that's just me.

But I am still intrigued about how the UA pedals sound.
 
Synergy modules and vst (MLC Sub Zero) for IRs is what I thought would give me the best bang for the buck.
 
Kent said:
Niet again,

guitar.com

The Edge confirms he's swapped his tube amps for Universal Audio’s UAFX pedals at U2's The Sphere residency

As a number of fans have speculated, The Edge has confirmed that he's ditched his tube amps for digital pedals for U2's Las Vegas shows.
guitar.com guitar.com
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I meant that he didn't build his "tone" on that rig, reason today is weight and cost, not sound. Again, he didn't create his tone using a single amp modeler. Same goes for Vai, Metallica and a lot of bands saving money on less roadies and shipping costs.

I wouldn't compare Phil X tone and ears with The Edge's probably near deafness at his 63's and his uber processed compressed full of tails guitar for dancing. But well, I showed 5 years ago, and yours is post pandemic and everyone is doing the same due to hikes on prices and conveniency. Not an origin story, it's a settling one.

There's even a well known Phil X's mic placement technique for proper amps played by people who properly rock and really play guitar, plus don't use hipster beanies in summer.

Yeah I despise The Edge, can you tell?
 
kgdrum said:
OK I’m ready to get flamed 🔥
I might be in the minority here but has anyone here actually listened to,cared or paid attention to anything from U2 in the last 30 years?
I would never think about U2 as a reference point for a real or cutting edge guitar sound for many years if ever let alone in 2024.
IMO although the Edge does some really interesting things with his wash of effects I doubt most if any people would be able to distinguish anything he plays in U2 whether it was created with an amp sim or the real thing.
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No, screw that. In guitar unless you're doing a cover or tribute because you probably didn't have any talent, you never see any questions regarding The Edge's tone,.less chord progressions or solos or scales.

The difference regarding Amps and what Phil says is in a live context, not behind the mixing board neither on an mp3.

Real amps with cabs move air for real and that never translates in a 5-8" monitor, worse in any kind of headphones.
 
A mediocre Cab IR will make any good digital amp sound like garbage. I've been very happy with my NeuralDSP Nolly, I even like playing with it using headphones. In a mix no one (probably) can tell the difference.

That being said, playing a loud tube amp is on another level - as it should, because getting them from point A to B is reason enough to hit the weights. Never had the chance to try something like an Axe-FX through a cab though.
 
Nobody cares about Bon Jovi or this guys opinion, he’s just another old dude crying online because he doesn’t like the way kids are doing things now. You hear it all the time, all these old washed up musicians from bands that were popular 40 years ago saying “music was so much better back in my day”, so in order to make themselves relevant again they have to make headlines with some wacky opinion that really doesn’t hold much weight, but it sure does make them feel good about themselves

The best guitarists in the world right now are all using plugins, modelers, and real amps. There is no “better” anymore, just “different”
 
First of all, music was so much better back in my day. But I agree though- amp sims are very useful in studio work and especially when used in combination with real amps they give you many options to sculpt the overall sound. Though nothing ever beats that screaming, shattering roar you get from a real amp, played real loud and causing real feedback. It's the sound and feeling of being a METAL GOD.

But I'm not much of an "amp guy" myself- couldn't care less about tubes or whatsoever amp/cab models as long as they sound like what I need. I'm still stuck in the JCM era anyway! Well, that and early 90's combos.

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Phil X may be right for his own part, but I think you'll have to be a super high performance, elite, live guitarist to really reach and notice those limitations (so now, every guitarist say "that's not true, I hear it too!!!" - peace, it makes them look good). He's great tho..

"Nobody want's to do anything that could be in a car commercial" (PhilX)

As a guitar playing producer, I'm perfectly happy with a Fractal, Kemper and Neural DSP plugins. It get's the job done, and for recording, often (read 99%) much better than a hot cooking tube amp. I can control the noise, make it sit in a mix after recording the parts, re-amp, or do what ever I want (or what a client wants, in a much later stage). If I could only have one amp, it would be a plugin.

But I won't dismiss the joy of playing through a cooking tube amp, with a nice pedalboard in front, in a live setting. The growl you can get, the way the effects respond in front of the amp, and the control over sound and dynamics you have in a scenario like that is indisputable. That's how guitarists rule the world.

It's just that, different folks, different strokes. So, it's impossible to put a blanket opinion over this - even though media loves the controversial potential in that.
 
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Once an artist reaches a certain stage size they are not hearing their cabs anyway. They are hearing an isolated mic-ed up cab through in-ears. Modellers make perfect sense in this scenario which is why so many large acts use Axe-FX or similar. There's no f*cking way the artist or crowd can tell the difference - actually, scratch that, it usually sounds better (less opportunity to mess it up somewhere in the chain).

Being able to instantly dial up any number of classic/experimental guitar tones in my very typical home composer studio is just not feasible in any other way. My Axe-FX was expensive but I used to have several amps and dozens of pedals but now they are gone and I don't even think about them.

Amps and pedals are fun and inspiring in the right situation (which is becoming rarer every day) but they are also a PITA. Love or hate it, he world moves on and we must move with it.

Guitars however...
 
One thing that, for me anyway, seems to help with the sims is to use a high quality tube preamp between the guitar and ADC. Given the choice though, I'll go for one of my Marshalls or my Laney thru real speakers into the right microphones. But often I'll use a real amp into a reactive load box into an IR for convenience. And for some amp sounds like Diezel and ENGL I'll just use sims since I'm not going to shell out for the real thing and the sims aren't *that* bad, imo. Does this make me a "pan-ampual"? lol
 
Dewdman42 said:
I am particularly talking about the spongey feeling that is lacking in modelers.

no doubt digital modelers are way easier to record.
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That’s how I got into neural DSP stuff, close to spongey - that’s a good way of putting it. I was calling it goopy.

The advances with modeling have been excellent and in my living situation essential. But it sure is fun to jack up a stack amp on the rare occasion I get to. Ripping the paint off the walls with a MesaBoogie 4x10 if only to relive my youth 🤓
 
It's old school heavy rock I know, but a listen to Judas Priest's 'Unleashed in the East', Scorpion's 'Tokyo Tapes' UFO's 'Strangers in the night' etc. hilight the difference in guitar sounds from the days of ubiquitous valve amps (Marshalls, mostly)
 
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