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Updating to Ryzen 9 - advice gratefully received

Guy Rowland

Guy Rowland

Senior Member
Hi all, my main rig is 5 years old - a 7820X with 64gb of RAM, and I'm finding its always pushed to the limit these days. I have a spare rig too, so my plan is to update that at leisure, then when the basics are in place I'll swap over my many hard drives - that way I can keep my VE Pro template hopefully which has taken years to refine. I'll keep the case and power supply, both of which are great, so my shopping list is CPU + cooler, mobo, 64GB RAM, 1TB C drive. I run a disabled VE Pro template, so 64gb of RAM is plenty - I've never been anywhere near that limit in 5 years. It's fabulous. However Cubase really struggles with single core performance.

Here's what I'm looking for:

Significant improvement on single core score (this is the most important)
An improvement on multicore score
Reduced watts

Facility-wise when it comes to the motherboard I need:

Min 6x SATA
Min 4x M:2
As many USB 2 and ye olde style USB 3 ports as pos

Don't need wifi (or most of the other bells and whistles), but everything seems to have it these days.

My googling (with some help from VI-C threads) has led me to this:

Ryzen 9 7900
AS rock x670e pro rs

I really like the look of the 7900 as that single core benchmark is 75% faster than the 7820X, and yet it's only 65W TDP. 4 more cores too.

There weren't many mobos with all the facs I need, the AS Rock seemed the sanest bet.

I haven't really researched the cooler, C drive or the RAM yet. With the latter, DDR5 obviously, as fast and as low latency as I can get presumably?

That's where I'm at - does it make sense? Any and all advice very gratefully received - thanks in advance.
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Whenever I've looked at motherboards most seem to top out at 4x SATA ports so maybe look into getting more via a PCI-E card. I think you mobo you mentioned above has 4 ports.
 
Mornats said:
Whenever I've looked at motherboards most seem to top out at 4x SATA ports so maybe look into getting more via a PCI-E card. I think you mobo you mentioned above has 4 ports.
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It's 6x satas -https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E%20Pro%20RS/index.asp . 5x M:2s too, one of the main reasons I went for it.
 
Regardless what CPU you get it'd be worth keeping in mind that Intel 14th gen is right around the corner. Might be worth waiting for a few weeks to see what happens in terms of pricing, if anything.
 
antoniopandrade said:
Regardless what CPU you get it'd be worth keeping in mind that Intel 14th gen is right around the corner. Might be worth waiting for a few weeks to see what happens in terms of pricing, if anything.
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Thanks for the tip. I'm not in a crazy rush, so waiting's no problem.

From the leaks though they don't seem especially promising for my use -https://wccftech.com/leaked-intel-p...ng-we-knew-14th-gen-raptor-lake-refresh-cpus/ . The base clocks of the i9 65w processors are 2.0ghz!
 
antoniopandrade said:
Regardless what CPU you get it'd be worth keeping in mind that Intel 14th gen is right around the corner. Might be worth waiting for a few weeks to see what happens in terms of pricing, if anything.
Click to expand...
It's a minor refresh of the previous generation, so not sure it will impact pricing on the AMD chips which have seen heavy discounts already.
 
Guy Rowland said:
Thanks for the tip. I'm not in a crazy rush, so waiting's no problem.

From the leaks though they don't seem especially promising for my use -https://wccftech.com/leaked-intel-p...ng-we-knew-14th-gen-raptor-lake-refresh-cpus/ . The base clocks of the i9 65w processors are 2.0ghz!
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65W TDP is also pretty misleading, especially in Intel's case - you can push those CPUs to guzzle a LOT more than that, and most motherboards will default to this kind of behavior.
 
Also, don't mean to de-rail the thread but if your aim is power and efficiency, do take a look at the M2. An M2 Max Mac Studio @ 64GB RAM would fit your needs, albeit the cost would be around 2x what you'd be paying for with the AMD system. It would save you power in the long run, and it runs dead silent (have that exact machine in my studio atm).
 
antoniopandrade said:
65W TDP is also pretty misleading, especially in Intel's case - you can push those CPUs to guzzle a LOT more than that, and most motherboards will default to this kind of behavior.
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I'm purely interested in running costs here. I did notice that the Intels idle lower than the AMDs in general - not a vast but still a significant difference. But when it comes to seeing action, then the AMDs seem massively more efficient to me. I don't really want to overclock this time, that seems where the most inefficiencies come.

I, of course, want it all - brilliant performance, low temps, low watts. I'll take a hit on the best possible performance to get lower temps and watts. Overall that seemed like AMD to me, but if anyone knows different I'm all ears. (M2 reply below)
 
antoniopandrade said:
Also, don't mean to de-rail the thread but if your aim is power and efficiency, do take a look at the M2. An M2 Max Mac Studio @ 64GB RAM would fit your needs, albeit the cost would be around 2x what you'd be paying for with the AMD system. It would save you power in the long run, and it runs dead silent (have that exact machine in my studio atm).
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I have an M2 MacBook Air, it's stunning.

I did waver on getting a Studio with the M2 Max, but have decided against. The main reason - honestly - is that I can't bear to do my template from scratch on a Mac. There would be no short cuts, it's a beast. I did also find out that the 7900 actually has more firepower than an M2 Max at least on paper, and cost is of course a factor - I'd need a lot more hardware for HDD housing etc. So it's likely x3-4 all in.
 
Guy Rowland said:
I have an M2 MacBook Air, it's stunning.

I did waver on getting a Studio with the M2 Max, but have decided against. The main reason - honestly - is that I can't bear to do my template from scratch on a Mac. There would be no short cuts, it's a beast. I did also find out that the 7900 actually has more firepower than an M2 Max at least on paper, and cost is of course a factor - I'd need a lot more hardware for HDD housing etc. So it's likely x3-4 all in.
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It is daunting, but not as bad as you might think. I did the swap years ago from Mac to PC and it took me around 2 weeks to get everything sorted. YMMV obviously but one thing I find super nice about going mac is you get an extra modifier key, which seems like a small thing, but once you build the muscle memory for it, not having it feels like missing a finger on your hand.

I understand the cost concerns, and one thing to keep in mind is that depending on how expensive electricity is in your area (I'm in CA so power is very expensive here) the power save might actually outweigh the cost of putting the machine together, since you save not only on raw power consumption but also on cooling (my i9 is an actual space heater that my AC has to pump harder to counteract!).

It's true you get more juice out of the AMD / Intel systems, but I'm wondering if we're starting to hit a point where power isn't as much of a concern, as with these new systems (all 3 - Intel/AMD/M2) you can run massive templates at latency buffers that are pretty much inconsequential. The extra little bit of power might not make that much of a difference in the end.

Apologies for the musings but I myself have been pondering that question lately for my next main rig update - I was all for full power all the time, but recently I've been swayed by the insane efficiency of the new ARM chips, they are truly a step beyond what I had expected.
 
antoniopandrade said:
It is daunting, but not as bad as you might think. I did the swap years ago from Mac to PC and it took me around 2 weeks to get everything sorted. YMMV obviously but one thing I find super nice about going mac is you get an extra modifier key, which seems like a small thing, but once you build the muscle memory for it, not having it feels like missing a finger on your hand.

I understand the cost concerns, and one thing to keep in mind is that depending on how expensive electricity is in your area (I'm in CA so power is very expensive here) the power save might actually outweigh the cost of putting the machine together, since you save not only on raw power consumption but also on cooling (my i9 is an actual space heater that my AC has to pump harder to counteract!).

It's true you get more juice out of the AMD / Intel systems, but I'm wondering if we're starting to hit a point where power isn't as much of a concern, as with these new systems (all 3 - Intel/AMD/M2) you can run massive templates at latency buffers that are pretty much inconsequential. The extra little bit of power might not make that much of a difference in the end.

Apologies for the musings but I myself have been pondering that question lately for my next main rig update - I was all for full power all the time, but recently I've been swayed by the insane efficiency of the new ARM chips, they are truly a step beyond what I had expected.
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That makes more sense when comparing against the 180w and even 120w processors, but those 65w AMDs look pretty much as efficient as the ARMs (always happy to be proved wrong). Indeed, the M2 Max seems to be rated at 79w TDP vs 65w TDP for the Ryzen - not sure how reliable that is, but it seems unlikely to me that I'd be saving on the bills much for all that Apple outlay.

I doubt I'd be able to do migrate that template two weeks and not end up institutionalised.

Much as they are gorgeous, there's no rational reason for me to go Mac really. Don't forget I'm doing an upgrade, not buying new, yet I'll effectively have a new blistering PC rig for under £1k most likely.
 
Guy Rowland said:
That makes more sense when comparing against the 180w and even 120w processors, but those 65w AMDs look pretty much as efficient as the ARMs (always happy to be proved wrong). Indeed, the M2 Max seems to be rated at 79w TDP vs 65w TDP for the Ryzen - not sure how reliable that is, but it seems unlikely to me that I'd be saving on the bills much for all that Apple outlay.

I doubt I'd be able to do migrate that template two weeks and not end up institutionalised.

Much as they are gorgeous, there's no rational reason for me to go Mac really. Don't forget I'm doing an upgrade, not buying new, yet I'll effectively have a new blistering PC rig for under £1k most likely.
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Sound reasoning for sure.

I'd be interested in those power consumption comparisons as well - from what I've heard the M2s seem to draw around 36W of power from the wall - I don't think I've heard 79W stated anywhere.


Screenshot 2023-10-06 at 11.00.59 AM.png
 
I was curious about these low power AMDs... it appears that the AMD Ryzen 9 7900 (a 65W model) has identical single-core and multi-core Cinebench scores to the M1 Ultra. Honestly I was surprised to see that. I'm loving the direction things are taking in the AMD side of things. At this point I assume that one could put together a very power efficient machine that (by using a high end mobo) will gives you 4+ full bandwidth NVME slots and excellent memory bandwidth and expandability.
 
I prefer AMD, but single core performance is better in the Intel side.
AMD is better in AVX-512 and multi-core.


DAWBench AMD vs Intel (Reaper, not Cubase)


Considering performance and power consumption, AMD X3D versions are the best.


The best air cooler for AMD is Noctua NH-D15 + AMD offset mounting bars.

It may not fit all cases motherboards, but the NH-D15S probably will.
Check for compatibility at https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15s/service

RAM, I do not see 4x48GB, but 2x48GB in the ASRock X670e Taichi QVL
www.asrock.com

ASRock X670E Taichi

Supports AMD Ryzen™ 8000 and 7000 Series Processors; 24+2+1 Phase Power Design, SPS for VCore+GT; 4 x DDR5 DIMMs, supports up to 7800+(OC); 2 PCIe 5.0 x16; Graphics Output Options: 2 USB4 Type-C, 1 HDMI; Realtek ALC4082 5.1 CH HD Audio Codec,, ESS SABRE9218 DAC, WIMA Audio Caps; 1 Blazing M.2...
www.asrock.com www.asrock.com
In the G.skill QVL for the ASRock X670e Taichi we have.
www.gskill.com

RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Find compatible memory kits for your motherboard. Just select the motherboard from the dropdown list and click on Search for a list of compatible G.SKILL memory kits.
www.gskill.com www.gskill.com
QVL only means it was tested, as long the BIOS is updated, should work at 4x48GB at least in 4800MHz.


Some good tweaks for AMD/Intel/Nvidia

Nvidia latency worse with more recent GPUs?

I know it's obviously not something that our craft needs but, as a matter of interest, does anyone have a nvidia 40 series GPU in their DAW? Just wondering if DPC latency is any worse with these more recent cards from nvidia. Thanks
vi-control.net vi-control.net

Some older posts with good info

Need some help with new PC build

I've got a new PC coming in over the next 1-2 weeks, and since I have absolutely no clue about PC hardware I ordered it from a reputable PC builder. The problem is that this builder is specialized in gaming PCs and doesn't offer the crazy specs that we composers need, so I'll have to upgrade the...
vi-control.net vi-control.net

New PC, what do you recommend?

Hi, I’m sure this topic has been beaten to death but pls bear with me… My old PC is struggling to keep up, so it’s time to move on. (current PC is an HP i5-7400 @ 3 GHz, 16GB RAM). My projects that have 40-50 orchestral tracks are stuttering and freezing, particularly BBCSO Core. (My DAW is...
vi-control.net vi-control.net

Make sure to first update the motherboard BIOS and use the latest chipset driver.
www.techpowerup.com

Latest AMD Ryzen Chipset Drivers 5.08.02.027 Download

This driver package contains the chipset drivers for AMD Ryzen processors for best performance and energy-efficient operation on Microsoft Windows.
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
 
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Hardly any difference between the 7900 and the 7900x3d here - https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/amd-ryzen-9-7900x3d-vs-amd-ryzen-9-7900

Shame none of the DAWbench tests compare the two. In the absence of any other info, I'm still minded to go for the 7900 - cost and lower wattage. And although the single core is about 10% percent behind the i9 13900K, the power draw of the latter is double - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+9+7900&id=5167

The regular 7900 just looks like the sweet spot for my requirements.
 
The regular 7900, without any suffix, would be my choice if I would go for AMD now.

Otherwise, I think the current platforms are quite extreme in terms of (max) power consumption, and the cost of current AMD hardware (Socket AM5 motherboards, DDR5) is still somehow unreasonably high. I've even considered building a desktop system with a mobile CPU next. These are also already very powerful and efficient, compared to my old system here.

I also have to renew, but I'm not in a terrible hurry and will probably wait for intel Arrow Lake. However, it is only announced for the 2nd half of 2024. With this series, the efficiency should also improve significantly in the desktop area, at least that's what intel claims.
 
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Note that you can also undervolt AMDs for not much performance loss while reducing TDP considerably.



Lose 10% multithreaded performance for 100W less TDP, roughly. Single core performance stays the same even at 65 W TDP.
 
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Guy Rowland said:
It's 6x satas -https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E%20Pro%20RS/index.asp . 5x M:2s too, one of the main reasons I went for it.
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My bad, I went by the page on Scan (https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asr...dr5-pcie-50-5x-m2-25g-wifi-6e-usb-32-gen2-atx) which says 4x SATA but in the product pic you can clearly see 6 ports which match the 6 on the Asrock page that are marked as the SATA ports. Good to know that you can get motherboards with 6 SATA ports on still.
 
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