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Finding the Right Acoustic Upright

Prockamanisc

Prockamanisc

Senior Member
I've been looking to get myself an acoustic upright to help with composing, but I can't find one that I love. I was a classical guitar major in college, so I don't have much experience with pianos. I do know that most of the pianos that I've played are lacking an attack, which is, for my tastes, essential for composing so that I can hear all the notes in the chords I'm experimenting with. I feel like most of the instruments sound like they have an EQ rolling off the highs.

Am I having trouble because I'm spoiled by playing such beautiful grand pianos in my VI libraries? Or is it just a nuanced thing that I'm looking for- enough attack to hear all the voices in the chords I'm playing, but still rich enough to actually sound good and full. How do I find the right piano? What should I be looking for?
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What's your budget? I purchased an acoustic upright in 2020 after a long search and realized its very difficult to find an upright that will give you sparkle and richness without spending serious money. Most uprights by their nature fail to deliver low end resonance/richness due to their shorter strings. Also, the detail and clarity is limited by the type of material used on the hammers, strings and design of the action.

I found the best of both worlds to be the Yamaha YUS5 but its very expensive. Bechstein have wonderful clarity too but also pricey.

You're just going to have to play as many uprights as you can until you find your best compromise
 
I suggest you consider a restored upright piano from the 1920s-1930s. There were some stunning instruments from this era manufactured with high quality materials (soundboard & frame timbers) by very skilled craftsmen, and in my experience the better examples out-perform many mid and upper-mid range new upright pianos in terms of tone, clarity and dynamics.

A reputable piano restorer/workshop will often have a number available. Piano tuners are also a good source of information regarding second hand pianos.
 
A few brands to keep an eye out for:
  • C.Bechstein (Berlin)
  • Ronisch (Dresden)
  • August Förster (Löbau Germany)
  • Mason & Hamlin (USA)
  • Richard Lipp & Sohn (Stuttgart)
  • R. Görs & Kallmann (Berlin)
  • Feurich (Leipzig)
Premium brands such as Steinway & Sons and Bösendorfer sometimes appear on the market, but quality restored pianos of these brands still command high prices compared to other European brands.
 
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Prockamanisc said:
I've been looking to get myself an acoustic upright to help with composing, but I can't find one that I love. I was a classical guitar major in college, so I don't have much experience with pianos. I do know that most of the pianos that I've played are lacking an attack, which is, for my tastes, essential for composing so that I can hear all the notes in the chords I'm experimenting with. I feel like most of the instruments sound like they have an EQ rolling off the highs.

Am I having trouble because I'm spoiled by playing such beautiful grand pianos in my VI libraries? Or is it just a nuanced thing that I'm looking for- enough attack to hear all the voices in the chords I'm playing, but still rich enough to actually sound good and full. How do I find the right piano? What should I be looking for?
Click to expand...
Yamaha action has always been a favorite to me but I do realize that is entirely subjective. There are reputable online dealers where you can window shop, then somehow deal with the shipping cost, but at least you'll know the piano was gone over and reasonably dialed in. I did a search and found this one, just being curious, and it's basically the same price as a VPC1 and a few VSL libraries (not on sale!):

Yamaha U3 Professional Upright Piano (used)

<p><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NCfhhFhn3mQ" width="560" height="315"></iframe></p><ul><li>52\" Black Polish Finish</li><li>Big Projection</li><li>Responsive Key Action</li><li>Jim Laabs Music 5 Year Warranty</li><li>Free Delivery within 100 Miles</li></ul>
www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com

Wish you the best on your search!
 
Prockamanisc said:
I've been looking to get myself an acoustic upright to help with composing, but I can't find one that I love. I was a classical guitar major in college, so I don't have much experience with pianos. I do know that most of the pianos that I've played are lacking an attack, which is, for my tastes, essential for composing so that I can hear all the notes in the chords I'm experimenting with. I feel like most of the instruments sound like they have an EQ rolling off the highs.

Am I having trouble because I'm spoiled by playing such beautiful grand pianos in my VI libraries? Or is it just a nuanced thing that I'm looking for- enough attack to hear all the voices in the chords I'm playing, but still rich enough to actually sound good and full. How do I find the right piano? What should I be looking for?
Click to expand...
Are you in the US or Europe? Or elsewhere? Having just gone through the process of buying an upright myself I would strongly suggest you try the exact piano that you are going to buy. They are all pretty different and individual, even the same model can vary quite a bit. I'm sure the YUS5 is lovely, I didn't get to try one myself. I did end up playing on a lot of lightly refreshed U1s and U3s (typically 30 to 40 years old, reconditioned by DoReMi). They were all crap. The Indonesian made Yamahas (b series) felt and sounded quite nice though, not sure how long they last. For the money I personally found Kawaii and Boston to be in a sweet spot, but I know prices are very different overseas.
 
I still have a humble Yamaha C series upright made by "Pearl River". It was purchased new back in 2004. I'm using it strictly for performance and practicing, not for composing and recording. For a while, I wasn't particularly keen on its bright sound (IMO, it was even brighter than usual for a Yamaha), but it grew more mellow in time as the piano matured. I must also praise its robust mechanics (never had any issues there over the years) and the fact that it has a felt pedal.
 
I purchased a 1981 Yamaha U5 twenty years ago and haven’t regretted it a single day. I played several U5’s and actually didn’t even end up buying the most expensive one, because I liked this one the best. It has been one of my most gratifying investments ever.
 
I am in love with my Kawai K3 (2014). The action is incredible (feels like a grand piano) and the tone is a bit warmer to me than its biggest competitor, the immensely popular Yamaha U1. Crisp highs and resonant low end. My piano tuner, who is a gifted jazz pianist, is always blown away by it when he comes out and usually ends up playing it for like an hour when he is done. His exact words last time: "This is such a kick ass piano."
 
blaggins said:
Are you in the US or Europe? Or elsewhere? Having just gone through the process of buying an upright myself I would strongly suggest you try the exact piano that you are going to buy. They are all pretty different and individual, even the same model can vary quite a bit. I'm sure the YUS5 is lovely, I didn't get to try one myself. I did end up playing on a lot of lightly refreshed U1s and U3s (typically 30 to 40 years old, reconditioned by DoReMi). They were all crap. The Indonesian made Yamahas (b series) felt and sounded quite nice though, not sure how long they last. For the money I personally found Kawaii and Boston to be in a sweet spot, but I know prices are very different overseas.
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I'm in the US, the Northeast. I agree with the "grey market" Yamahas, all the ones I played didn't have any life to them.

I don't have any Kawaii dealers nearby, so I haven't played any.

Lower-end Yamahas seem pretty good, especially when the store you're buying from has a trade-up policy.

I played a bunch of Bostons and liked them, but didn't love them. They were lacking attack.
 
CGR said:
A few brands to keep an eye out for:
  • C.Bechstein (Berlin)
  • Ronisch (Dresden)
  • August Förster (Löbau Germany)
  • Mason & Hamlin (USA)
  • Richard Lipp & Sohn (Stuttgart)
  • R. Görs & Kallmann (Berlin)
  • Feurich (Leipzig)
Premium brands such as Steinway & Sons and Bösendorfer sometimes appear on the market, but quality restored pianos of these brands still command high prices compared to other European brands.
Click to expand...
I appreciate this list! I will certainly keep an eye out for them.

Haha, this is bringing me back to my guitar days of "a guitar for every genre!" It's unfortunate that pianos are both so large and expensive, otherwise a variety would be nice to have. But that's what samples are for.
 
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I would second Mason Hamlin's in the USA. They have their "professional range" but also their Artist and Classic Series which are cheaper. https://masonhamlin.com/

I've enjoyed playing Kawai, the are certainly Darker in tone than Yamaha.

For me Bosendorfer are the holy grail, their upright is fantastic, but very expensive.

I absolutely prefer composing at a real piano. There is just something about hearing a real piano with all it's overtones and feeling the keys between your fingers that is more inspirational...
 
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Prockamanisc said:
I played a bunch of Bostons and liked them, but didn't love them. They were lacking attack.
Click to expand...
It's true. If they have a fault it's that they are pretty mellow, but to me this translated to incredible control in the softer dynamics and a lovely round bell-like tone. They don't cut through though. The Kawaii's were slightly too dark for my personal taste but I have to admit that their action was spectacular. I have also found that I prefer a less percussive attack, for which I might be in the minority. I cannot (for example) really appreciate the VSL Fazioli sound despite the amazing sampling. The attack is too ever-present in all the demos.
 
I moved to a new house recently and looked for a good upright nearby for months. The refurbished U1's at the local piano shop were like $5-6k (seems high, but there you go). I finally found a hardly-played Yamaha MX100A Disklavier for $2k, probably from the late 80s, not sure. I don't have much to compare it to, but it's a way more amazing experience for composing than playing sampled pianos through my SL88 Grand, which has amazing action, but it's such a more intimate and musically connecting experience to have a good upright. It's got a good brightness to it, but also has a felt pedal so I can compose after the kids go to bed in the next room. I think it's a precursor model to the U1 (MX100A => MX100B => U1).
 
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