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Negative Track Delay in Logic and VEP7 not working! help!

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prodigalson

Senior Member
Hi,

So I'm incorporating VEP7 into my Logic set up on a single machine. Everything is working fine except I've noticed some major timing issues with notes either being triggered too early or too late. I've done a little troubleshooting and the only conclusion I've come to is that VEP7 isn't receiving the negative track delay settings I've set in each track. Tracks with slow legato delays are playing back too late and tracks with shorter track delays on short notes are now playing too early. I've taken off the negative track delay from a test track and quantized the note and it plays back as expected...I can't figure out what's causing this problem because obviously this isn't expected behavior from VEP and many people use it (im assuming) with track delays....

Anyone have any insights into this? Im on the latest Logic and the latest VEP7 so I'm at a loss....

please help!
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There are a zillion ways to hook Logic and VEP together.

Could you share a video or some screenshots?
 
VEP doesn't know anything about LogicPro's track delay setting, LogicPro simply sends midi events to the VEP plugin sooner or later depending on that that setting, it's entirely within LogicPro.

As to why it's no longer working...hard to say without more information. the track delay is known to not work reliably with AU3 instruments and also with AUX tracks.
 
Dewdman42 said:
VEP doesn't know anything about LogicPro's track delay setting, LogicPro simply sends midi events to the VEP plugin sooner or later depending on that that setting, it's entirely within LogicPro.

As to why it's no longer working...hard to say without more information. the track delay is known to not work reliably with AU3 instruments and also with AUX tracks.
Click to expand...
Hmm...yeah of course that makes sense. I'm not using AU3 or AUX Tracks. Just a single instrument track with two associated MIDI tracks going to an AU instance of VEP. VEP7 server project is open outside the DAW.

Whats especially confusing is that it's not consistent. Sometimes playback happens as desired...sometimes it's like the track delay setting isn't being applied...and this only occurs on tracks using VEP..
 
prodigalson said:
Hmm...yeah of course that makes sense. I'm not using AU3 or AUX Tracks. Just a single instrument track with two associated MIDI tracks going to an AU instance of VEP. VEP7 server project is open outside the DAW.

Whats especially confusing is that it's not consistent. Sometimes playback happens as desired...sometimes it's like the track delay setting isn't being applied...and this only occurs on tracks using VEP..
Click to expand...
Negative track delay doesn’t work in Logic with multitimbral instruments. If you set -120 on midi channel 1, and then -60 on midi channel 2 Logic will send whatever delay setting of your last selected track to the plugin (as far as I can determine).

Meaning you can’t have a legato articulation and a staccato articulation with different track delay settings sending to the same VEPro instance and get reliable results.

Your two solutions are to use one track per vep instance or setup a negative track delay in VEP with multiple outputs for different articulations using something like the expert sleepers plugin.

I’ve submitted requests to Apple to fix this but it’s still broken in the latest version.
 
bpford said:
Negative track delay doesn’t work in Logic with multitimbral instruments. If you set -120 on midi channel 1, and then -60 on midi channel 2 Logic will send whatever delay setting of your last selected track to the plugin (as far as I can determine).

Meaning you can’t have a legato articulation and a staccato articulation with different track delay settings sending to the same VEPro instance and get reliable results.

Your two solutions are to use one track per vep instance or setup a negative track delay in VEP with multiple outputs for different articulations using something like the expert sleepers plugin.

I’ve submitted requests to Apple to fix this but it’s still broken in the latest version.
Click to expand...
Ah..yes initial tests seem to verify this is the issue. I could have sworn I had simple instrumnet (non-multi timbral) with VEP having the same issue but investigating a little further it seems not and that everything works fine when I give each tracks its own instance. Annoying as I was really hoping to keep the instance count minimal in VEP but oh well...when will I learn that just cos Logic allows you to do something - like have separate neg delays per MIDI track - doesn't mean it'll work!!

Thanks!
 
You might get it to work by using raw midi tracks cabled through environment multi-instrument objects. Then I bet the delay will work
 
Dewdman42 said:
You might get it to work by using raw midi tracks cabled through environment multi-instrument objects. Then I bet the delay will work
Click to expand...
I just gave this a shot but was unsuccessful. Created raw midi in the environment and then connected them to a Kontakt instance within Logic itself.

As far as I can tell, these raw midi tracks don't respond to track delay settings at all...when the track delay is set to milliseconds...

But if you switch to ticks, the delay starts behaving as expected, and will reliably delay the different midi tracks at different values.

Working in ticks though is not great, as you would have to calculate the negative delay setting depending on the tempo you're working at, no?

You also seem to lose features like Bounce in Place when you cable raw midi to an instrument via the environment, which is a bit of deal breaker.
 
bpford said:
I just gave this a shot but was unsuccessful. Created raw midi in the environment and then connected them to a Kontakt instance within Logic itself.

As far as I can tell, these raw midi tracks don't respond to track delay settings at all...when the track delay is set to milliseconds...

But if you switch to ticks, the delay starts behaving as expected, and will reliably delay the different midi tracks at different values.

Working in ticks though is not great, as you would have to calculate the negative delay setting depending on the tempo you're working at, no?

You also seem to lose features like Bounce in Place when you cable raw midi to an instrument via the environment, which is a bit of deal breaker.
Click to expand...
so it sounds promisng that there is at least the infrastructure in place for midi tracks to respond to different delay settings when cabled to an instrument…hopefully Apple will eventually refine this to work for ms and outside of the environment.
 
Really the track delay should be part of the actual track regardless of how it’s connected to instrument, Apple needs to improve it no doubt

Another approach you can use is to use expert sleepers latency fixer plugin which will use pdc to accomplish negative delay
 
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