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How much practice on trumpet to beat samples?

fakemaxwell

Senior Member
Bit of a thought experiment I've been mulling over- how much practice time on trumpet would it take to be able to beat samples? Including both traditional samples and modeling. And to simplify it a bit, let's pretend the recording studio/stage plays no part.

I'm not an expert in how any of the orchestral instruments truly work, but it seems that I can get passable results from just about any of them with samples and modeled instruments. However, trumpet continues to allude. Have good samples and all of the modeled attempts, and I end up spending a ton of time auditioning, swapping, mixing, combining just to get something that still only sounds okay.

I'm a reasonably fair hand at learning instruments. For any trumpet players, how long do you reckon it would take to be able to beat the samples? With the limited amount of time we all have in life it's probably doubtful that I become truly proficient, but if it's not too long a time frame it'll be worth it in the saving of future headaches.

And a related topic- any other instruments where the juice is worth the quick squeeze? I always encourage people to learn a bit of guitar, as it's the easiest instrument to record and (imo) is extremely difficult to sample without getting machine gun effects.
 
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I would say the trumpet is one of the less ideal instruments for this kind of thing.

It takes some training to even get a steady note out of the instrument at all, because the embouchure is not just something you learn, but something you have to physically train. I played trumpet for years, but I could barely get a note out today because the specific muscles I'd need are just gone. Plus your lips get tired very quickly at the start.

The tone and intonation of your playing is so highly dependant on your embouchure, and it takes a lot of time to master that. Samples don't have the expression and dynamic versatility of the real trumpet, but they have the tone of extremely skilled players. It would probably take years to beat that.


As for other instruments:
Guitar (and anything related) is definitely one of the instruments with quick usable results, as you say. Some composer friends have been going on and on about all kinds of end-blown and fipple flutes. Particularly for effects and flourishes they get a lot of mileage out of them with not a lot of practice.
 
I would say the trumpet is one of the less ideal instruments for this kind of thing.

It takes some training to even get a steady note out of the instrument at all, because the embouchure is not just something you learn, but something you have to physically train. I played trumpet for years, but I could barely get a note out today because the specific muscles I'd need are just gone. Plus your lips get tired very quickly at the start.

The tone and intonation of your playing is so highly dependant on your embouchure, and it takes a lot of time to master that. Samples don't have the expression and dynamic versatility of the real trumpet, but they have the tone of extremely skilled players. It would probably take years to beat that.


As for other instruments:
Guitar (and anything related) is definitely one of the instruments with quick usable results, as you say. Some composer friends have been going on and on about all kinds of end-blown and fipple flutes. Particularly for effects and flourishes they get a lot of mileage out of them with not a lot of practice.
Agree 100%. And reaching higher notes can take years of training.
 
1000% agree with @Harzmusic. I was a great pep band player (read: very loud, not very good). And I, too, can't really play a note anywhere near acceptable at this point. And forget about trying to sound like Chris Botti or any other great player or any decent sample library. Years to get even mildly acceptable is not an exaggeration. You're better off learning a nice breath controller and/or learning a nice MPT controller, which would be quicker AND applicable to other instruments.
 
Yep, what they said... ever try playing a trumpet? Take a year's worth of lessons and see if it's still worth it. It's a punishing instrument. Any woodwind or brass instrument will take a long time (many years) to learn to develop a sound that even comes close to approaching professional-level, and trumpet in particular is such a physically demanding instrument that it can permanently damage your face if you go at it too hard. That even happened to Freddie Hubbard, one of the finest jazz trumpet players who ever lived.

If you're learning a new instrument for the joy of learning a new instrument, THAT is worth it! Absolutely, do it. It's never too late to start. My dad started playing upright bass in his 50s, and now that he's retired from his engineering career he just gigs around Oregon. It's beautiful.

But if you're gonna try to learn an instrument just for the sake of essentially having access to a better sample library... much less painful to just spend the extra time finessing the libraries you have. :)
 
I played trumpet for six years as a kid into my early teens in marching band, concert band and orchestra. I could play in tune and had a decent range, but there’s no way I could match most of the articulations in a brass library.

One of my directors was a professional trumpet player, however, and he could blow away our entire brass section by himself. He had 20 plus years of training at that point.

My verdict - not an easy instrument to master on a quick timeline.
 
Any wind or bowed instrument will require a lot more time to get decent results than any kind of plucked or hammered instrument (e.g. guitar or piano).

The reason is you have to learn to make a decent sound. That requires a lot of muscle control training beyond the "hit the right keys" training that you have to do on any pitched instrument.

My wife has been teaching beginning band for decades. She and I can both assure you a decent wind instrument sound takes years to develop.

You can "pick up" guitar or piano or drums. Wind/bowed instruments, though... not so much.
 
You can "pick up" guitar or piano or drums. Wind/bowed instruments, though... not so much.
So true.

I used to play clarinet. Now I play a TEControl BC2 and have a MUCH broader palette of sounds at my disposal, with note selection, pitch bend and vibrato depth handled by a familiar-feeling MIDI keyboard. (I'd play the clarinet still, but for the missing pads I haven't gotten around to replacing.)
 
Being a trumpeter myself for 35 years and having taught brass for a living, I can fairly say that almost everyone can learn to play a brass instrument up to a certain point. Getting to the level you're referring to however, will take a lot of playing. To give you an idea: I was tutored by a pro for 9 years before I was able to confidently play. During the last 3 years of those, it took 2-3 hours practice a day and about 3 gigs a week to get to a level for my submission at a conservetory, which I failed initially.

Knowing the players sampled in the libraries of the big boys all have a considerable higher level than I had after those 9 years, you can imagine how much work it'll be. And even then, some will never achieve it. You have to have a bit of luck physically to be able to produce the sound and have the flexibility for playing on that level. And then there's the music theory...

To surmize: you could do it, but I don't know if you're willing to put in the effort and money. There are a lot of instruments that are a bit more forgiving when it comes to starting.
 
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If you want to choose between trumpet and another instrument, say, flute, for example, a picture is worth a thousand words:

Galway Flute.jpg

Ferguson.jpg
Sandoval.jpg
Gillespie.jpg
__________
Funny thing: my wife is an amateur concert flautist and I've played it numerous times under her guidance, but I get really dizzy after even a single scale run 😂 Those things are so inefficient with your air (read: I'm just really inefficient with my air on a flut 😄).
 
It depends what you are after ... for the horror genre, I was quickly able to produce suitable sounds with a cheap violin from eBay. But I wouldn't want to try overdubbing a sampled violin section playing a melody ... the samples sound a lot better on their own! :) Even if I would practice every day for the next 5 years, I wouldn't be confident for that to significantly change.
 
Even if you become proficient on the trumpet, the skill can go away in a tiny fraction of the time spent learning it. I started playing when I was 5... I'm 65 now and I took 10+ years off. I started playing again about 4 years ago. I won't ever be at my top level again. It is indeed a physically demanding instrument. I recently played the trumpet parts in this. Meh. :/ I do have fun though!
 

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It took maybe 3 years to have a good tone and control, but even after 10 years I could not play most of the morricone trumpet solos
 
Bit of a thought experiment I've been mulling over- how much practice time on trumpet would it take to be able to beat samples? Including both traditional samples and modeling. And to simplify it a bit, let's pretend the recording studio/stage plays no part.

I'm not an expert in how any of the orchestral instruments truly work, but it seems that I can get passable results from just about any of them with samples and modeled instruments. However, trumpet continues to allude. Have good samples and all of the modeled attempts, and I end up spending a ton of time auditioning, swapping, mixing, combining just to get something that still only sounds okay.

I'm a reasonably fair hand at learning instruments. For any trumpet players, how long do you reckon it would take to be able to beat the samples? With the limited amount of time we all have in life it's probably doubtful that I become truly proficient, but if it's not too long a time frame it'll be worth it in the saving of future headaches.

And a related topic- any other instruments where the juice is worth the quick squeeze? I always encourage people to learn a bit of guitar, as it's the easiest instrument to record and (imo) is extremely difficult to sample without getting machine gun effects.
Easy to learn, hard to master. I started playing when I was 7 and had achieved grade 8 by the time I left school at 16. I'm 43 now and still play but a lot less due to no bands in the local area anymore and my time is spent between composing, playing keys and bass guitar in a band and teaching. With sample instruments and some of the physical modeling stuff being so good now I can't remember last time I recorded a live trumpet, they isn't any need too.
 
And a related topic- any other instruments where the juice is worth the quick squeeze? I always encourage people to learn a bit of guitar, as it's the easiest instrument to record and (imo) is extremely difficult to sample without getting machine gun effects.
Tin whistle / low whistle for sure. Guitar had too much of a learning curve so I couldn't stick with it as a "side project" but whistles are easy to just pick up and play and now I have 20 of them in different keys (oops). Low whistles are a bit more difficult if you have small hands but the sound is beautiful and the fingering is simple.

A recorder if you want a chromatic instrument.
 
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