Audeze LCD-X - perhaps I was expecting too much?

Symphonichrome said:

Up until receiving my Audeze LCD-X yesterday, I have been using Genelec 8331A's with a Genelec 7040A subwoofer as monitors and Audia Technica ATHMX50 for headphones

My interface is the Lynx Hilo

So, last night and today, I changed back and forth between the AT and Audeze headphones listening to various styles of music through them (classical, pop, dance, metal) and, perhaps I was expecting something "more" from the Audeze? To me, they sound "thin". I realize that the AT are closed back and will have more "oomph" due to such but, the Audeze had virtually no bass response whatsoever, even on bass heavy tracks.

I then used them to listen to some compositions I am in the process of writing - same thing - compared to the AT's, they sounded "thin". I know the Audeze are supposed to be great for monitoring and mixing but, I am not sure they are for me.
Would Sonarworks and/or Canopener be helpful in this regard? For anyone else that has the Audeze, what were your first impressions upon hearing them?

Thank you.

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I have no experience with either of your headphones, but my first thought was "do they require a burn in period?"
I have K712 Pros, and the difference between checking them out on arrival, and then leaving them over night with the eponymous Way Out West album on loop, at a level that would have been a little uncomfortable to listen to after 10-15 minutes, was night and day.

Agree about burn in, also no experiences with ATs.

They should sound mostly flat, un-hyped - but detailed, across the frequency range. They were a substantial improvement over Sennheiser HD650s for me.

Is the interface the right impedance match to drive them?

Are they latest revision, i.e. 2021? I believe they made some changes to the pads on that year that effects low end. You might check Crinacle's headphone frequency graphs. In general the Audeze's are known for pretty good, linear bass extension, but that may be more compared to dynamic open back headphones. They make a closed-back LCD-X which I've heard good things about.

I can see where they may seem bass-light come from a closed back like your AT's. I had been mixing on HD600's for 2-3 years which are open back and known to be light in the very low sub end, so I found the LCD-X's to be an improvement there. I also picked up a used pair of Audeze MX4's and can say I preferred the overall sound of those and just sold my LCD-X. I found they were a bit darker than I wanted.

The quality I most like from the Audeze line (and from planar's in general) is a very snappy transient response. Regular dynamic headphones feel a bit soft and nondescript when I switch back to them.

I should mention I haven't heard the ATHMX50's, but I do have a pair of ATH-R70X open backs which are very comparable to the HD600 line. I also have the HD600, HD650, MX4, and several high end IEM's. I do have some closed-back Sennheisers and Beyerdynamic. The Sennheisers seemed to have a bloated, wooly bass with very little articulation. Re: open vs closed-back: It always seemed to me like you trade some articulation and clarity for having more quantity of low end.

You might want to look in Audeze's new MM line, which is supposed to be even better tuned for mixing and production. I'm really curious to compare those to the MX4. But I imagine if you found the LCD-X to be bass-light, those would also seem light.

All sonarworks does really is apply an eq. Stick an eq on your monitoring FX chain in your daw, and you get the same thing. Asr measured these and provides an eq here https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ze-lcd-x-review-2021-edition-headphone.25271/

Also oratory measured and provides eq settings here. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sloaf7ptogjmjkx/Audeze LCD-X (2021 revision).pdf?dl=0

Do the same with the m50x, I have those. The m50x has bloated bass, around 100 to 150hz from memory, and this makes them seem better, but actually it's far from flat. I don't like the m50x even with eq. I only use them for recording when I need closed back.

I use Genelecs with GLM for monitoring and when I demo'd a pair of LCD-X I thought they needed EQ to match the monitors. Distortion across the whole spectrum is very low on the LCD-X so should respond to "corrective" EQ quite well. My main headphones for tracking and mixing are Beyerdynamic DT880 and AT MSR7, both of which need EQ to be useable in critical situations, too.

There aren't too many headphones I hate on but the M50X are terrible.

Ugly, bloated bass. I like bass heavy headphones but the bass on the M50X just doesn't sound good. Weird, resonant mids that make acoustic guitars sound awful. Harsh upper mids and grating highs. It's a symphony of bad.

I would give your ears some time to get used to the LCD-X. They are night and day different when it comes to accuracy and detail in my opinion. (I'm not even a huge fan of the LCD-X)

Zanshin said:

Agree about burn in, also no experiences with ATs.

They should sound mostly flat, un-hyped - but detailed, across the frequency range. They were a substantial improvement over Sennheiser HD650s for me.

Is the interface the right impedance match to drive them?

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No such thing as physical burn in. Has been measured many times and proven to not exist. It's more a psychoacoustic thing of getting used to the new sound signature.

Paul@Sydney said:

No such thing as physical burn in. Has been measured many times and proven to not exist. It's more a psychoacoustic thing of getting used to the new sound signature.

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Dude I am old and set in my ways, goooood luck trying to use fancy words to convince me of your assertions!

After eyeing them for quite a while, I finally got to try out a pair of LCD-X (2021) a couple of weeks back. I must say I was a bit underwhelmed. They are in no way a bad pair of headphones, I just expected more for that amount of money. My negative reaction had very little to do with the bass response though.

ATH-M50x has a really V-shaped frequency response, so if you are used to that sound, more or less everything else is going to sound thin. If the amount of bass in the M50x is comparable to the sound of your speaker, It’s also likely that you’ve gotten used to too much bass from your speaker.

LCD-X has a much more flat bass response so Sonarworks will not add more bass to you headphones. What Sonarworks will do is help you get a better and more unified frequency response from both your speaker and headphones.

CanOpener is great at doing what it does but it has very little to do with the over all frequency response. It’s main purpose is to correct for the unnatural stereo images all headphones suffer from.

I Use the LCDX with Acustica Audio Sienna. The Best Combo.

Paul@Sydney said:

All sonarworks does really is apply an eq. Stick an eq on your monitoring FX chain in your daw, and you get the same thing. Asr measured these and provides an eq here https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ze-lcd-x-review-2021-edition-headphone.25271/

Also oratory measured and provides eq settings here. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sloaf7ptogjmjkx/Audeze LCD-X (2021 revision).pdf?dl=0

Do the same with the m50x, I have those. The m50x has bloated bass, around 100 to 150hz from memory, and this makes them seem better, but actually it's far from flat. I don't like the m50x even with eq. I only use them for recording when I need closed back.

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Update. I now use the graphic eq settings from autoeq for all my headphones, and the m50x are now fabulous. Transformed. Potentially my best sounding headphones.

Akoustecx said:

I have no experience with either of your headphones, but my first thought was "do they require a burn in period?"
I have K712 Pros, and the difference between checking them out on arrival, and then leaving them over night with the eponymous Way Out West album on loop, at a level that would have been a little uncomfortable to listen to after 10-15 minutes, was night and day.

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Absolutely,I worked in High End Audio Hi-Fi for 12 years, burn in time for optimal performance of equipment is very a real phenomenon.
We would typically burn in equipment (speakers,dacs,amps,headphones etc…..) for anywhere between 24 hours to 3 days for them to sound as intended.
Also if I remember correctly,Audeze headphones really need a quality headphone amp to sound right.
If you’re just using a headphone output from a interface, I would assume this could be a possible weak link in the chain.
Audeze headphones will definitely sound best with a quality dedicated headphone amp.

I have LCD-X 2021 and they completely suck until you run them thru a correction EQ curve. And then they are exceptional. Planars really take EQ well. I use the attached curve. For windows use I use Peace/APO and for ASIO applications use LKJB's QRange in min-phase zero latency mode. Both allow typing in the parms from the curve document.

Also, as with all low impedance cans, its best to use a high current dedicated amp. Consumer and mid grade studio headphone outs will allow for volume, but also distortion due to their opamp design. Even high end opamps distort significantly under such a load while providing plenty of volume.

FWIW, also found the Waves NX Oceanway a great virtual studio *if* not using its built in curve for the LCD-X 2021 (use "none") and instead use QRange with the attached curve after Oceanway.

Paul@Sydney said:

Update. I now use the graphic eq settings from autoeq for all my headphones, and the m50x are now fabulous. Transformed. Potentially my best sounding headphones.

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Even my Yamaha RH-5ma are completely usable with a good correction curve. Same for my Austrian K701. Headphones are pretty much useless without correction imo. Including my $1300 ones.

So I'm thinking about getting the LCD-X.

I'm not super picky with headphones comfort but a lot of people complain about the weight. Is it really that bad?

I plan on wearing them for long sessions and I've suffered neck issues in my life which is why I'm a bit concerned.

Pier said:

So I'm thinking about getting the LCD-X.

I'm not super picky with headphones comfort but a lot of people complain about the weight. Is it really that bad?

I plan on wearing them for long sessions and I've suffered neck issues in my life which is why I'm a bit concerned.

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Its something I got used to, but the first day they felt like a load. The audio quality once run thru correction EQ makes it worth getting used to imo. Very detailed sound compared to my Austrian 701 which is a decent headphone. Plus who doesn't want a football player neck without even working out, lol? (just kidding, they aren't that heavy)

Pier said:

So I'm thinking about getting the LCD-X.

I'm not super picky with headphones comfort but a lot of people complain about the weight. Is it really that bad?

I plan on wearing them for long sessions and I've suffered neck issues in my life which is why I'm a bit concerned.

Click to expand...

I got used to them after a few months, but if you’re prone to neck pain I would be careful. They are heavy, there’s no way around it.

John Longley said:

I got used to them after a few months, but if you’re prone to neck pain I would be careful. They are heavy, there’s no way around it.

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I've read a couple of people saying they started having neck issues months after they started using the LCDX...

Thanks, I think I'm probably going to get some Hifiman instead.

Switching to a new set of cans definitely takes some getting used to. When I first started working with the DT990PROs, I thought they were the craziest sounding headphones - not in a good way. Now I won’t use anything else. (Going on 10+ years)

And headphone “burn in” period is a myth. It’s your brain thats burning in, not the drivers.