Can I turn down the film's audio in a scoring competition? (ScoreRelief)

You can also use some side-chained compression or something like that to make your music duck according to the movie audio

angeruroth said:

You can also use some side-chained compression or something like that to make your music duck according to the movie audio

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I could make the music quieter, but even then the Stereo Out bus still peaks above 0db, because the film audio (without music) hits 0 many times.

You're going to *have* to turn it down else you won't be able to provide a finished entry!

I shouldn't worry about it. Whoever prepped the audio for the comp probably did a quick normalisation job on the assumption that the composers like yourself will pull down the fader to taste.

The only thing you really need to worry about (artistic considerations aside) is that your final delivery (score + audio) doesn't clip and kisses 0db without excessive dips/compression etc.

Try to write your music around the existing material - that's what the comp is all about - and balancing the levels should be straightforward.

Good luck!

Looking at the verbiage of the rules sure reads as if they’re pretty adamant about no adjustments. Before you accept advice here, and spend time on your entry, only to have it disqualified, I’d strongly recommend reaching out to the contest sponsors for clarity.

• The original sound of the animation should not be doctored or edited in any way

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So no editing or changes basically. Which you wouldn't be touching with a bargepole anyway if this was a normal scoring commission.

Pulling down the fader to gain some headroom for your score will be absolutely fine and acceptable - and actually a technical necessity if you're to provide an entry in the format the organisers require.

Bara Matahari Pagi said:

So I'm working on my score for the ScoreRelief 2024 scoring competition, and it seems like the audio from the film they gave is too loud. It hits 0db LOTS of times (see picture below), so if I add even the quietest bit of music, it goes above 0.


(this is the film's audio only, with no music)

The rules said we can't edit the original audio, but can I turn it down a bit so everything doesn't clip every 2 seconds? Turning it down a little doesn't count as editing, right? I'm not automating it or anything.

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In ScoreRelief 2021 'Spring' in which I participated, it was allowed to move the fader of the SFX, so I think it's ok to do it. But to be sure, just contact them.

Yeah in previous years reducing the FX level was explicitly permitted (to make room for music) but no other changes. Be careful about compression... I made the mistake of applying compression and limiting to the master bus (music+FX) which of course subtly changes the FX volume throughout. I don't think it affected the judging in any way, i.e. I wasn't rejected because of it, but it bothered me so I won't be making that mistake again!

I am changing it, and I usually use NETFLIX LKFS (-27 dB) with DLG+SFX. For this clip, it looks like the "Mix_v5" is heavily limited, whereas the other stems (Effects, Foley, Music, Voices) are not as processed. Personally, I will be using those instead, since this is a bit ... crazy ...

Thank you, everyone. I'll contact The Cue Tube to confirm, hopefully it's allowed!

Sounds like they don’t even know what they’re doing themselves…

Just focus on making great music, improving your craft, and learning more from the experience of doing it. If you get disqualified for fixing an issue they created then that just delegitimizes them. Remember, these competitions basically mean nothing aside from winning some free stuff, the most important thing you get from them is more experience!!

Olympum said:

I am changing it, and I usually use NETFLIX LKFS (-27 dB) with DLG+SFX. For this clip, it looks like the "Mix_v5" is heavily limited, whereas the other stems (Effects, Foley, Music, Voices) are not as processed. Personally, I will be using those instead, since this is a bit ... crazy ...

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@Olympum interesting... I was wondering why they provided the stems when we're not allowed to change the original audio. So do you mean the audio mix that's in the film they gave sounds different from the ones in the individual stems? If so, I'm wondering which one are we supposed to use

KEM said:

Sounds like they don’t even know what they’re doing themselves…

Just focus on making great music, improving your craft, and learning more from the experience of doing it. If you get disqualified for fixing an issue they created then that just delegitimizes them. Remember, these competitions basically mean nothing aside from winning some free stuff, the most important thing you get from them is more experience!!

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Actually, I find that the original film audio hits 0db in most competitions (except for Westworld, the volume in that is PERFECT). But you're right! I'm mostly doing these competitions because they're fun and if somehow I win, that's just a bonus!

Bara Matahari Pagi said:

Actually, I find that the original film audio hits 0db in most competitions (except for Westworld, the volume in that is PERFECT). But you're right! I'm mostly doing these competitions because they're fun and if somehow I win, that's just a bonus!

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Exactly!! And that just further proves the difference in experience between these smaller companies and stuff coming out of mult-million dollar studios, those mistakes get ironed out and aren’t a problem by the time everyone else gets their hands on them. Which is why we strive to get to that level

Just got a reply from The Cue Tube. They said it's okay to lower the overall volume of the film audio, but not to automate them. And they suggested using the audio that comes from the film file rather than the stems. The stems are there in case people wanted a different edit for showreels etc.

All sounds good to me! Thanks for all the answers here and good luck for anyone entering!

Out of the blue reading this thread a question has arisen.

Anyone can explain if it's a good idea taking advantage of the film audio peaks for instance and layer them with something personal? Adding more intensity for instance, or layering wind blows with frozen strings

That is usually done or it's frown upon to overtake original audio fx?

So I have a follow-up question. What do you guys usually do to keep the overall volume (music+sfx) below 0db?

Do you just check manually if the master hits 0db with an analyzer, and then adjust the music volume as needed, or do you use another way?

Bara Matahari Pagi said:

So I have a follow-up question. What do you guys usually do to keep the overall volume (music+sfx) below 0db?

Do you just check manually if the master hits 0db with an analyzer, and then adjust the music volume as needed, or do you use another way?

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There’s multiple ways to do it, automate the volume of the music, use a multiband compressor to sidechain the music to the dialogue and sound effects, do both of those, slap a little bit of clipping/limiting on the music so it doesn’t go over, etc.

In the real world this would usually be the dubbing mixers job, not yours, so you would just be writing music and they’d have to figure this stuff out (which normally just means your music gets turned way down lol)

If you want the quick and dirty "pro" way to do it-

Put the dialogue/fx on one track. LUFS (not db) normalize to -23. Play your music and ride the full bus fader around the normalized track. Since it's a music competition, ride it a bit hotter but don't go crazy, if you ever can't hear crucial story info the music is too loud.

Then export the whole thing (if for YouTube) at -14, -.5 limit. This is easy to do in Reaper, not sure what you're using but I think most DAWs have loudness tools. If the limiter is going nuts at loud sections you'll want to remix or do some more careful compression in those spots.

I don't think YouTube cares about db levels, they'll just compress it to fit on their end, so do it all before it gets to them. They just check the LUFS.

fakemaxwell said:

Put the dialogue/fx on one track. LUFS (not db) normalize to -23. Play your music and ride the full bus fader around the normalized track. Since it's a music competition, ride it a bit hotter but don't go crazy, if you ever can't hear crucial story info the music is too loud.

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If I normalize the sfx track to -23 LUFS, will that change / compress the sfx audio at all? Because we're not allowed to edit the sfx.

fakemaxwell said:

Then export the whole thing (if for YouTube) at -14, -.5 limit. This is easy to do in Reaper, not sure what you're using but I think most DAWs have loudness tools. If the limiter is going nuts at loud sections you'll want to remix or do some more careful compression in those spots.

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And about this, do you mean putting a limiter in the final master/stereo out bus? Doesn't that compress everything a little if it gets too loud?

Btw, sorry I'm asking these (probably) silly questions, I'm kinda new to the mastering world...

Bara Matahari Pagi said:

If I normalize the sfx track to -23 LUFS, will that change / compress the sfx audio at all? Because we're not allowed to edit the sfx.

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Normalizing will only change the level of the tracks, no other processing.

Bara Matahari Pagi said:

And about this, do you mean putting a limiter in the final master/stereo out bus? Doesn't that compress everything a little if it gets too loud?

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Ah yeah if you're going be the absolute letter of those rules, then you'll have to not limit the final mixed output. Still aim for -14, you'll just have to watch it through every time with a limiter placed only on the music. It's a bit unfair of a requirement but thems the breaks.