Steven Slate headphones and templates

TMOfficial · Jan 22, 2024

I feel like my compositions/arrangements/
orchestrations are good. I feel like each instrument is playing in its proper register,etc.
so when I go to export a mix in Cubase I get the muffled “blanket over the speaker” sound. Ugh! And of course the mix sounds great through my speakers and even on headphones.

I use one template. I orchestra my midi,EQing each instrument. Then when I am done I bounce each midi track to audio. From there I run all the tracks to an EQ channel then from there to the stereo out. Then I use an online mastering service for a convenient polish.
I don’t use a mastering chain, not even sure what that is. I sometimes use compression on my Perc. But just one over all. I don’t split between Lows and Highs. Should I not EQ the midi tracks and wait until I bounce to audio to EQ? And even then do I EQ each individual instrument in a section and then make a group channel and EQ highs and lows of that section? Or one EQ for the entire section?
I have the Steven Slate headphones and software. But I find that even more confusing.
I personally feel my problem lies with not fully understanding how and when to use things that help shape and enhance sounds. Like saturation and compression and other things.
Everyone says if you can make the Mid’s sound great your song transfer to any speaker and sound great!

So far I’m just spinning my wheels

Beat Kaufmann · Jan 25, 2024

The problem for us readers of your text is that we can neither estimate how strong the top sounds over the export to Cubase compared to the "original", where we also don't know how and where it is created. We also don't know whether you generally only mix with headphones and then with any presets until you export it to Cubase for the first time and only then listen to it via speakers. We also don't know whether your studio monitor system allows us to make any reasonable statements about the quality of the sound and whether your monitoring room is perhaps not acoustically treated at all or even too heavily.

So how can we give any kind of tip?
Perhaps you need to describe in more detail how you do what. Maybe you can present it. Before and after the export to Cubase. Maybe you can be more specific about what you want the community to know.
---------------------------------
But a few basic thoughts on the thread title
Basically, you can adjust and control a lot of things in a mix with headphones. What you can't do well with headphones is set spatial positioning correctly. Our ears and brains do this by detecting the first incoming waves and using them to evaluate tiny differences in time and intensity, allowing us to determine exactly where a sound is coming from and how far away it is, among other things. Headphones feed each ear with an isolated sound. With all due respect to Slate's headphone systems, they don't completely replace pure listening via loudspeakers, like sitting in an acoustic stereo triangle (or in the sweet spot of 5.1 / 7.1 / 13.X). So if you want a mix to work not only via headphones (with presets), you have to do at least some panning via monitors (phase-correct). Last but not least, a check via normal headphones also makes sense - i.e. without the special Slate thing... or in other words, the way the "normal" listener will probably hear your mix. After all, that's one of the aims of mastering, that the mix sounds more or less good on all systems and in all situations, isn't it?
---------------------------------
You can answer your question in the title yourself, namely whether you should set up a template using a special system (Slate) or, better, using a more standard setup. Slate system yes, if a mix via the slate system also sounds good in the car, at a friend's house, via a hi-fi system, via PC speakers or on a laptop. No, if...

All the best
Beat

motomotomoto · Jan 25, 2024

The fastest way to improve your mixing imo is to use reference tracks. Take a song that has the Sonic character of what you want to achieve. Now listen carefully to a section of the song and start tweaking each element of your song to match your reference. listen closely, experiment, set levels, add comp or Sat if needed. Take your time, you will learn a lot.

gsilbers · Jan 25, 2024

TMOfficial said:
I feel like my compositions/arrangements/
orchestrations are good. I feel like each instrument is playing in its proper register,etc.
so when I go to export a mix in Cubase I get the muffled “blanket over the speaker” sound. Ugh! And of course the mix sounds great through my speakers and even on headphones.

I use one template. I orchestra my midi,EQing each instrument. Then when I am done I bounce each midi track to audio. From there I run all the tracks to an EQ channel then from there to the stereo out. Then I use an online mastering service for a convenient polish.
I don’t use a mastering chain, not even sure what that is. I sometimes use compression on my Perc. But just one over all. I don’t split between Lows and Highs. Should I not EQ the midi tracks and wait until I bounce to audio to EQ? And even then do I EQ each individual instrument in a section and then make a group channel and EQ highs and lows of that section? Or one EQ for the entire section?
I have the Steven Slate headphones and software. But I find that even more confusing.
I personally feel my problem lies with not fully understanding how and when to use things that help shape and enhance sounds. Like saturation and compression and other things.
Everyone says if you can make the Mid’s sound great your song transfer to any speaker and sound great!

So far I’m just spinning my wheels

First of all id say that it's not an easy thing. It takes time to develop this part of the craft.

I recommend a way to compare your mix to other people mixes. Similar like with transcribing, copying other people's mixes will help you out figure out levels, eq and comp.

There is a plugin called magic a/b but it's not available anymore. There are alternatives form plugin alliance and Melda plugins. You load mp3 of tracks and you quickly A/B. You load it onto your master bus and you switch back and forth.

The slate headphones are good. but to make sure, you have to disable it during mix down or when listening through speakers (sorry, it's obvious but just in case).

Then loudness sometimes makes an impact. Adding a limiter or clip plugin at the and and getting to the levels other tracks are at might help get a better bass. You add this before the slate plugin.

If you want a quick solution maybe try a pultec stye EQ on each instruments and also make busses and also add that eq. Small increments. Add highs and remove low mid.
Same with a saturator enhancer plugin but you have to keep it subtle. you can add it to each track individually. but sparse. Then a limiter/clip plugin on each track to increase the gain until you get a strong signal/mix.

TMOfficial · Jan 25, 2024

Last night I laid down a single 8 bars of 1st violins from Orchestral Tools. I believe these are recorded in correct position. But I also have 2cAudio Precedence set up with everything from the Berlin Series in its proper place.
One instrument, no overlapping frequencies same issue.

jcrosby · Jan 25, 2024

TMOfficial said:
I feel like my compositions/arrangements/
orchestrations are good. I feel like each instrument is playing in its proper register,etc.
so when I go to export a mix in Cubase I get the muffled “blanket over the speaker” sound. Ugh! And of course the mix sounds great through my speakers and even on headphones.

Without examples there's no way for anyone to offer you anything useful. For example there are a number of things you've mentioned in your post that said you apply, that almost certainly have some impact - maybe a little, maybe a lot. You can make an excellent mix using only an EQ and levels, you can also completely ruin one with them as well.

Putting the mix aside, no one knows if your assumption that your arrangements aren't playing a role is accurate or not.... Putting things in the 'right register' isn't everything, you could be lacking temporal or tonal contrast, missing or underutilizing dynamics, etc. If your writing and orchestration isn't up to snuff then potentially, there's 50% (or more) of your issue.

TMOfficial said:
I personally feel my problem lies with not fully understanding how and when to use things that help shape and enhance sounds. Like saturation and compression and other things.

Without a doubt this is where many of your problems stem from, (again, putting your writing aside). You need to learn the fundamentals of mixing. Levels alone are 75% (or more) of the battle. Without understanding how/why every decision you make in a mix has a cumulative effect you're basically flying blind.

You may not need to do much, because part of knowing "when to use things" is knowing when you don't need to use anything at all. All you have to do is over-EQ one group of instruments and you can completely ruin an otherwise decent sounding mix. You can also over-compress, oversaturate, add too much reverb, etc. Everything can be overdone, and the results are cumulative... Then you have aesthetic choices, like whether you want a natural, bright, or 'produced' sound.

Millions of hit records were made in the decades before listening in a "virtual environment" ever existed. Just because you have a theoretically excellent way to listen to things means nothing if you don't know what you're actually listening for. Referencing is important, one of the most important things you can do in terms of giving yourself a reality check about the quality of your mixes, but at the end of the day you still need to learn why the tools exist, and when they're useful, or - equally important - when they're completely unnecessary.

Without example(s) you're going to get a bunch of suggestions made without a reference point...

TMOfficial · Jan 28, 2024

Ok here is the short little "Stinger" I am working on. Along with my Mix Console set up as well as every instrument and reverb EQ settings. I used Metrolopis Ark 1 for most everything on here except the Big Band is from OT Glory Days. I do have panning set up wuth 2C Precedence for ewach instrument as well. even though OT records their samples in the correct room position. The greyed out FABFilter is from where I was trying to get the EQ right using Steven Slate software, but I scrapped that to send everyone this audio file to hear what I am talking about.
Let the tearing apart begin!

TMOfficial · Jan 30, 2024

jcrosby said:
Without examples there's no way for anyone to offer you anything useful. For example there are a number of things you've mentioned in your post that said you apply, that almost certainly have some impact - maybe a little, maybe a lot. You can make an excellent mix using only an EQ and levels, you can also completely ruin one with them as well.

Putting the mix aside, no one knows if your assumption that your arrangements aren't playing a role is accurate or not.... Putting things in the 'right register' isn't everything, you could be lacking temporal or tonal contrast, missing or underutilizing dynamics, etc. If your writing and orchestration isn't up to snuff then potentially, there's 50% (or more) of your issue.

Without a doubt this is where many of your problems stem from, (again, putting your writing aside). You need to learn the fundamentals of mixing. Levels alone are 75% (or more) of the battle. Without understanding how/why every decision you make in a mix has a cumulative effect you're basically flying blind.

You may not need to do much, because part of knowing "when to use things" is knowing when you don't need to use anything at all. All you have to do is over-EQ one group of instruments and you can completely ruin an otherwise decent sounding mix. You can also over-compress, oversaturate, add too much reverb, etc. Everything can be overdone, and the results are cumulative... Then you have aesthetic choices, like whether you want a natural, bright, or 'produced' sound.

Millions of hit records were made in the decades before listening in a "virtual environment" ever existed. Just because you have a theoretically excellent way to listen to things means nothing if you don't know what you're actually listening for. Referencing is important, one of the most important things you can do in terms of giving yourself a reality check about the quality of your mixes, but at the end of the day you still need to learn why the tools exist, and when they're useful, or - equally important - when they're completely unnecessary.

Without example(s) you're going to get a bunch of suggestions made without a reference point...

I’ve posted all the info at the bottom of this post.

TMOfficial · Jan 30, 2024

Beat Kaufmann said:
The problem for us readers of your text is that we can neither estimate how strong the top sounds over the export to Cubase compared to the "original", where we also don't know how and where it is created. We also don't know whether you generally only mix with headphones and then with any presets until you export it to Cubase for the first time and only then listen to it via speakers. We also don't know whether your studio monitor system allows us to make any reasonable statements about the quality of the sound and whether your monitoring room is perhaps not acoustically treated at all or even too heavily.

So how can we give any kind of tip?
Perhaps you need to describe in more detail how you do what. Maybe you can present it. Before and after the export to Cubase. Maybe you can be more specific about what you want the community to know.
---------------------------------
But a few basic thoughts on the thread title
Basically, you can adjust and control a lot of things in a mix with headphones. What you can't do well with headphones is set spatial positioning correctly. Our ears and brains do this by detecting the first incoming waves and using them to evaluate tiny differences in time and intensity, allowing us to determine exactly where a sound is coming from and how far away it is, among other things. Headphones feed each ear with an isolated sound. With all due respect to Slate's headphone systems, they don't completely replace pure listening via loudspeakers, like sitting in an acoustic stereo triangle (or in the sweet spot of 5.1 / 7.1 / 13.X). So if you want a mix to work not only via headphones (with presets), you have to do at least some panning via monitors (phase-correct). Last but not least, a check via normal headphones also makes sense - i.e. without the special Slate thing... or in other words, the way the "normal" listener will probably hear your mix. After all, that's one of the aims of mastering, that the mix sounds more or less good on all systems and in all situations, isn't it?
---------------------------------
You can answer your question in the title yourself, namely whether you should set up a template using a special system (Slate) or, better, using a more standard setup. Slate system yes, if a mix via the slate system also sounds good in the car, at a friend's house, via a hi-fi system, via PC speakers or on a laptop. No, if...

All the best
Beat

Check my post at the bottom of this thread

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Steven Slate headphones and templates

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