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MacPro 5,1 Relic: what to do with it.....

Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Title says it all. What to do with the still currently viable 5,1 MacPros that many of us have and are still using, but have been deprecated by Apple, not only for OSX, but as of yesterday, also for LogicPro.

If possible I'd like this thread to remain constructive, rather than a pity party about how Apple sucks or the opposing view, which will get us nowhere. Rather I'd like to see practical information about what to do with this hardware, which is still in my opinion quite usable and valuable for the foreseeable future.

Catalina

I am typing this message from a 5,1 that has Catalina installed via the DosDude patcher. So I will comment first about that.
  1. It works. LogicPro 10.6 works.

  2. Catalina is not 100% perfect. The fonts are blurry compared to Mojave. I think this is probably a hardware acceleration issue that if I figure out I will post here on this thread. Supposedly this patched version cannot run future updates of Catalina, but I was just able to run a security update just fine...so we shall see. Supposedly HVEC and some other hardware accelerated video formats are not supported with this patch, but there might be some hacks to make that work, I will update this thread if I figure it out.
Open Core

6 months ago, the information about running Catalina on 5,1 was that DosDude was the man. But since then some Apple updates came out that apparently gave those users some grief with updating, and problems with HVEC and hardware acceleration were discovered. Since then people have been migrating to Open Core for this, which appears to be the best way, but about 100x more complicated to setup, and frankly I think most people on this forum will not want to go that route.

Big Sur

There are some people running BigSur on the 5,1, also using OpenCore, but allegedly this has more issues then Catalina and I want to hear a lot more info about this over the coming months. I expect it will have issues, and the whole ARM transition is going to multiply that situation to be worse and worse.

Alternatives

So there are several alternatives for what to do with this hardware.

  1. Leave it on Mojave, use whatever you can until it doesn't serve your needs anymore. This is my #1 choice right now because this will be the most stable and reliable situation and will not involve any hacking whatsoever. Things will work as they were intended. Most DAW's and plugins are still compatible on Mojave and will be for the foreseeable future, at least a couple more years, though the ARM transition might force some of them to draw a line in the sand and force their future updates to be only Big Sur and newer at some point. We shall see.

    For the moment, this is only an issue if you care about the latest features and bug-fixes of LogicPro/Mainstage.

  2. DosDude Patched Catalina. This will kind of work and get you to LogicPro 10.6, however as noted there are drawbacks. Also DosDude has stated that BigSur has many more complications than Catalina in terms of patching it and it may be a while, if ever, that older machines will be able to run a patched version of BigSur. I also think that Apple is going to move LogicPro on to the BigSur architecture as soon as possible and they are going to push for ARM everywhere. In the long run that will be cool, but for our 5,1's, we will be ultimately shut out completely at some point. In other words, its quite likely that if you upgrade to Catalina you'll get LPX 10.6 but probably not the next version of LogicPro after that. So is it worth it? I think probably not.

  3. Open Core Catalina. this will work better then DosDude's. This is not a terrible idea, if you have the skills to do it. Its not for the faint of heart. Read about how to do it here:

    forums.macrumors.com

    Manually Configured OpenCore on the Mac Pro

    In this guide, you'll learn how to use OpenCore to install, run and update macOS Catalina, Big Sur and Monterey on the 2009–2012 Mac Pro, ending up with a clean unaltered operating system just like on a supported Mac. The approach described in this guide is for setting up and configuring...
    forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com

    Theoretically, I haven't tried it yet, this seems to make 5,1 work extremely well with Catalina, including hardware acceleration, HVEC support, standard updates from the Apple updater, etc. So.. that might be able to get you one more up-to-date-year out of the MP5,1, possibly very cleanly, but I can't promise anything until I try it, which I am not inclined to do until I have completely used up my patience with option#1 (mojave forever).

  4. Open Core Big Sur (and beyond). We shall see. I think probably people will get Big Sur working, at least initially. However I expect an onslaught of ARM-motivated changes coming from Apple over the next 2 years which will hit BigSur and the next OSX very hard...rendering it increasingly difficult to keep the MP5,1 as well as other Hackintosh computers completely up to date or working reliably. We shall see how it all shakes out, but just want to point out...this is not something we can really plan on being able to do yet.

  5. Open Core Windows 10. its not out of the question, at some point, to covert the MP5,1 over to a 12 core Windows 10 box. For me this will be last resort, probably not unless/until Apple comes out with a new piece of hardware that I am willing to buy. Then I will probably convert my MP5,1 into a windows box. Or I might do it anyway if I get fed up with the ARM transition, because I feel that its a matter of time until Steinberg, PreSonus and everyone else will draw a line in the sand and will move on to new versions of their software that require the very last ARM-ready version of OSX... (ie, at least BigSur)...and at some point Intel will be entirely left in the dust on the Mac Platform. But this box can still function as a very quite decent Windows10 machine, but using OpenCore to set it up. So Cubase13 on Windows10 running on a cMP.....totally doable and not out of the question. It would probably make a pretty decent VePro server also.

  6. Dual Boot. With Open Core its also possible to setup dual boot situations, so that you can boot into the ancient Mojave, or Windows10, or Catalina or whatever...and by the way if you have a Metal GPU and no boot screen, Open Core gives you a boot screen too! So that is definitely the techie way to keep using this hardware for years to come, but Open Core is currently not even remotely easy to setup. So there is that.
That's all I have for now. I will look forward to hearing other ideas about what to do with this hardware. Myself I'm going to stay with Mojave for the time being...and at least for now, LogicPro hasn't added any new features I can't live without, though it looks like they may have fixed that disappearing articulation set bug in LPX10.6, which means the only way to lose that bug will be to buy a new computer (or try open core Catalina I guess), if I want to keep using LogicPro.
Click to read more...
 
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Follow up to the blurry fonts I got when I installed DosDude patched Catalina, its fixed with the following:

https://gist.github.com/hookydev/6a88c5f1d5edd697b7f47f787a66afe1 (Font fix)


namely doing this:

Code: 
defaults write -g CGFontRenderingFontSmoothingDisabled -bool NO
defaults -currentHost write -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 1

This is possibly only a problem, as well as a valid fix; for people using HiDPI, non-apple-branded Retina monitors.

EDIT:.. hmm, well maybe. I initially felt like maybe it cleaned up my fonts, but the Mail app fonts still look crappy and fuzzy compared to Mojave...so...maybe not quite solved yet.. This might be related to lack of proper hardware acceleration also (OpenCore would that)
 
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Was one of the options I included in the first post. Certainly a good way to put it to use as a windows Box. I do not have confidence that VePro will continue to run well in the future on Mojave. At some point they will be forced to follow the ARM train also.
 
In my case, I am not able to make this transition now because I have invested thousands of dollars on other midi and audio hardware that will not work on any current apple Mac except for the 2019 MP, price out of the question..and actually my MOTU midi hardware is reportedly unstable according to MOTU tech support, so I'd have to replace that too. So for me...I'm more interested to keep the MP5,1 going a few more years as my primary DAW until apple releases a mid tier pro solution on arm.

Eventually.... I will move to a new primary computer..then the MP5,1 could become a VePro server. That's a few years away for me and personally I think its too soon to relegate this hardware to only that purpose just yet. We need a true replacement from Apple first that doesn't cost as much as a car.
 
Dewdman42 said:
In my case, I am not able to make this transition now because I have invested thousands of dollars on other midi and audio hardware that will not work on any current apple Mac except for the 2019 MP, price out of the question..and actually my MOTU midi hardware is reportedly unstable according to MOTU tech support, so I'd have to replace that too. So for me...I'm more interested to keep the MP5,1 going a few more years as my primary DAW until apple releases a mid tier pro solution on arm.

Eventually.... I will move to a new primary computer..then the MP5,1 could become a VePro server. That's a few years away for me and personally I think its too soon to relegate this hardware to only that purpose just yet. We need a true replacement from Apple first that doesn't cost as much as a car.
Click to expand...

What MOTU midi interface are you using that’s unstable with latest Mac Pro?
 
Unstable with catalina, according to motu, which would include the new mp.

Several mtpav’s
 
Dewdman42 said:
In other words, its quite likely that if you upgrade to Catalina you'll get LPX 10.6 but probably not the next version of LogicPro after that.
Click to expand...
At some point in the future, maybe in two years from now, all Macs will be based on Apple silicon – and some time after that (5 years??), Logic will probably require an ARM based Mac. The OS will also require an ARM Mac at some point. So, for people like us, who'll gladly (?) use our Macs 10 years if possible, it's worth considering that long perspective also. Personally, I'll wait a while and see what happens, and even consider selling my 5,1 Mac to someone who mainly deal with audio recordings and not VIs – and spend whatever I get for it towards a temporary solution before going all ARM. That could be a fast iMac, one of the Intel Macs that aren't released yet.

I would also consider using a powerful 5.1 Mac for a few more years – even if there would be some blurry fonts here and there – and combine this with using a Mini, MBP for mail and everything other than Logic.

Maybe it's easier to switch to another MIDI interface than diving into Open Core or getting a new Mac?
 
Yea, the point i was trying to make above is that I think the next version of LogicPro after 10.6, will require Big Sur. And right now I have serious mis givings about that ever being generally useful on the MP5,1. So what I'm trying to say is that it may (or may not) make sense to jump through hoops to upgrade an MP5,1 to OpenCore, etc..if all it will buy you is one more year of using LogicPro 10.6 and then you'll be quite likely blocked from there.

I agree what you're saying about ARM, I think its too soon to jump on that ship also, that's why we are kind of stuck in the middle for a couple years since Apple is deprecating hard now the MP5,1 ,but doesn't have a reasonable replacement solution (yet).

The Midi Interface works totally fine with Mojave by the way. What I'm trying to say is that if I upgrade my computer because I don't want to be stuck on Mojave anymore, I will have to buy thousands of dollars worth of replacement audio and midi gear to go along with it.

If I Open Core it to Catalina, then I can get my audio gear to last another year or so, but the midi gear might not work, according to MOTU tech support, I won't know for sure until I try it. That is approx $1k worth of new midi gear I'd need there.

Most likely the path I am going to follow is:

  1. Stay on Mojave for now, experiment with Catalina on the side if and when I have time. Stay with LPX 10.5 for now

  2. If I figure out OpenCore, maybe I will upgrade the machine to Catalina, which will get me one more year on LPX 10.6. But I might have to buy new midi gear.

  3. I don't have any confidence about reliably running Big Sur on this box, based on everything I have read, but never know, if they figure it out, I'll try it sure why not.

  4. After that I will wait until either Apple releases a new machine I love, absolutely must be on ARM; ideally with PCI slots. Or... I will slug along with whatever version of LPX and everything else I am using until I am tired of being left behind...then I will likely turn the MP5,1 into a windows box to run whatever and I'll decide at that time which DAW and platform I want to use for my main workstation.
 
and PS, I will be following Cubase the whole time. It might be time to switch back to PCWindows running Cubase.
 
Well, I'm in a similar boat to you, except that I use Cubase. I plan to keep the old faithful going for the next year or so until the new Mac Pro Mini, or whatever it's going to be called, is here.

At that point I'll either buy one of those, or I may even move to a PC desktop if Apple disappoints.

To be honest, I was ready to buy a new Macbbok Pro this week, but not one with 16gb RAM.

I am hopeful though that Apple will come thorugh with the serious horsepower next year.....
 
I think you're in good shape Michael. If I were you I would not even think of going past Mojave yet on the MP5,1. I still think box has a lot of life left in it, but it may be running Windows eventually.
 
Open Core

6 months ago, the information about running Catalina on 5,1 was that DosDude was the man. But since then some Apple updates came out that apparently gave those users some grief with updating, and problems with HVEC and hardware acceleration were discovered. Since then people have been migrating to Open Core for this, which appears to be the best way, but about 100x more complicated to setup, and frankly I think most people on this forum will not want to go that route.
Click to expand...
I do have this working on my Mac Pro (2012) running 10.15.7
I initially tried it so I could run Windows in UEFI without the issue faced using the native Mac Pro approach

Smooth running so far as well
I did not find this too hard, I believe (coming from a hackintosh user 8 years ago), the process has got a lot simpler
With the guidance being very comprehensive (unlike all those DSDT and AML edits back then) gosh :blush:

I see a bright future, even if short, for my Mac Pro
Failing all use for Music I will turn it into an ESXi system for running Virtual machines for IT Infrastructure

But, right now it hosts my VE Pro with Kontakt libraries nicely :)
 
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My Pro is on Mojave, and to be honest, I can't see any reason why I'd want to go to the trouble of getting Catalina wokring, rather than just sticking with Mojave....
 
Shad0wLandsUK said:
I do have this working on my Mac Pro (2012) running 10.15.7
I initially tried it so I could run Windows in UEFI without the issue faced using the native Mac Pro approach
Click to expand...

Any and all insights about what you did to get this working would be appreciated here, ideally whittled down in a way that is easier to follow then the MacRumors threads, which are often ridiculously verbose and left brained to the point of giving me a headache...
 
Nick Batzdorf said:
This is the first thing I've wanted to run that I can't.
Click to expand...

Its pretty much the ONLY program I was worried about becoming Catalina-only earlier then necessary...and actually I still thought we might have yet another year before even hitting this wall.
 
Yeah, I get frustrated every time I read about it, and say the same thing every time.

And Apple doesn't have a machine that's suitable for moving Logic to yet.
 
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Nick Batzdorf said:
And Apple doesn't have a machine that's suitable for moving Logic to yet.
Click to expand...

That's really the biggest problem in my view

Looking at it historically... The MP cheese graters came out...and they were Apple's pro machine. PCI slots, lots of cpu, internal expandability..you know the list. They kept upgrading it more and more powerful. But sometime after about 2010 they decided to stop doing that. The 2012 was not really any better then 2010, they were just continuing to sell it. They did that 2013 trashcan thing, which was arguably a huge mistake. After that lots of prosumers still wanted that power, but all Apple did from then until now is release one after another mini and iMac...which some prosumers made work, but many prosumers were not content with that...particularly if they had invested in custom displays, PCI cards, internal storage, etc. There was all this chaos of change that whole time about Firewire, thunderbolt, thunderbolt3, etc.. Many people found it much more advantageous to keep their cheesegrater and even upgrade the CPU's in them too, because all things considered...still the best solution.

Finally they came out with the 2019MP but for way too much money. It went too far. Very select few pros can justify the price of that one, a lot of small time operators and semi-pro, can't even remotely justify the price of it. So still we wait..

Then they say less then a year later...oh wait, we're going to move "everything" to ARM within two years.

So who in their right mind would buy one of those expensive 2019MP's now? I sure wouldn't. I actually would not buy any new intel mac from Apple at this point. I think many people will be very reluctant to. As soon as Apple realizes that they are REALLY going to put down the pedal in trying to get the entire MacOS industry to move to ARM. But honestly..I think we're still at least two years out from having something that can truly replace our Cheesegraters.

So..we're in limbo now. At this point...everything we do will be short term transitionary solutions....which very well might included buying a used-market intel lessor solution that can at least run Catalina. I'd really like in this thread to explore the details and information about keeping our MP5,1's operating as long as possible so we can get through that two years and move on to ARM after that.
 
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