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The White Noise Blast of Death -- I'm losing my mind

stingray306

stingray306

Rachel Hardy
Yesterday I was working away on a project in Logic, and one of the tracks was buzzing a little bit (some sort of glitch). So I ended up deleting that track (as I didn't need it), and unloaded the sample library it was using in VEPro. Shortly after this, I got the "white noise blast of death". For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud). Some users have reported permanent hearing damage and tinnitus caused by the WNBOD, and neither Apple or the Logic community have found a solution. Unfortunately I was wearing headphones when this happened, so I experienced bad headaches and aching ears last night, and they were ringing for a few hours. Thankfully today my ears and hearing are back to normal.

Today, things seemed to be working fine in Logic until now -- my Logic tracks suddenly started switching volumes (some would suddenly be louder and some would suddenly be quiet, even though the volume / automation hadn't been changed). I had to go in and bump up volume on the now quiet tracks and turn down the too-loud tracks. Also, some tracks were registering on the Logic meter but were not actually playing any sound. VEPro seemed to be the culprit here -- the tracks were not registering on the sample library meters, but midi information was coming through. Immediately after these things started happening, the overall sound of the track began to buzz, and I started getting flashbacks to last night; the buzzing was the precursor to the white noise blast of death. I was too scared to even try to trouble-shoot, so I closed everything and shut down the computer. I'm not sure if the buzzing was caused by some damage to my headphones from the blast yesterday, or if it's a sign that another blast is coming.

Even though no one has figured out what causes this or why, I'm trying to gather some clues as to what might be the culprit. While a lot of people have had this problem in Logic before, I honestly think VEPro could be the culprit here. (I've experienced loud blasts in Logic in the past, but nothing like this).

One other thing that has been happening lately is that when I shut my computer off, either the computer or the speakers "pop" or "click", which has never happened until recently. The speakers or computer also makes a little pop/click sounds multiple times throughout the night when I'm not using it. (But keep in mind, the blast occurred through my headphones, so it isn't directly linked to the speakers -- maybe the audio interface?). Could this issue maybe be caused by an electricity problem? Bad cables/cords? I'm really not a tech person, but I am absolutely terrified of the WNBOD happening again. Any ideas or leads would be so greatly appreciated, even if it's a shot in the dark. I'll do anything.

Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.
Click to read more...
 
Well, he thought smugly to himself, that never happened in the days of tape and analogue desks, etc, etc. I mean, you might get electrocuted, if you spilled your tea, or you might put your back out trying to move the power supply but DAMN that WNBOD sounds freaking horrible :sad:
 
I hate to say this but when I googled WNBOD most of the reports were from Logic users. I've been using Reaper for years and have never experienced anything like that. I've seen all kinds of bugs but nothing that could hurt me. I think I might migrate my tracks and uninstall it if it did.
 
Yeah it's happened to me too, in Logic. No VEPro involved.

A limiter may not help but there is another plugin called Ice9 that's been recommended for this problem, and in my case, it did seem to work and clamped down on stupid noises before they could become an issue for my ears. Unfortunately I think the developer isn't around anymore, so I'm not sure if it's possible to find the plugin still.

That's not a real fix, anyway. It's a bit of a strike against Logic as a whole for me because however infrequent, it's a major deal. It hasn't happened to me in a long time, but who knows, maybe tonight's the night....
 
A plugin that is still available and can prevent you from experiencing this again is Nugen's SIGMOD (https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/). I experienced the noise burst once and now I put this on the master output of every Logic Project. I think it is normally around $49 and I believe I got it on sale at JRR shop for about $29. It can do a lot more than provide noise burst protection but is a worthwhile investment in your hearing for that feature alone.
 
Oof. Can't help but I know your pain... oddly I had a hardware synth/keyboard that did this exact same thing and it was ungodly. Don't want to mention the actual synth as I eventually sold it and did warn the buyer but I hope they still have their ears on their head.
 
It's actually the reason I left Logic many years ago. I worked with Apple for 6 months on it. They literally did everything they could from upgrading my computer for free, to giving me the latest OS's for free. No one could get rid of the issue. The last time I did it, I ended up full out punching myself right in the face and almost blacked myself out from having headphones on and it doing it.

I will never use Logic again as long as I live from that scare. It's never happened to me again (moved to Windows and Studio One).

Hope you figure it out. Please put some type of hardware protection into your system if you don't have it. They literally happen without warning and without knowing cause. Your hearing is way to important and the fear I had every day working in Logic took away some of my creative power.

I wish you the best figuring this out!
 
There is a thread I saw in the Apple support forum where someone mentioned it turned out to be a corrupted bus, in his case.

I have never had the blast, but I have had a few instances of Logic freezing on me, and the meters showing what appears to be full scale audio on the master. My outboard meters register the volume as full scale, but I don’t actually hear anything. Usually I force close the song and it comes back with no issues.

Maybe rebuild your template? What audio interface? What processs buffer setting? Are you pushing the mac hard ?
 
dgburns said:
There is a thread I saw in the Apple support forum where someone mentioned it turned out to be a corrupted bus, in his case.

I have never had the blast, but I have had a few instances of Logic freezing on me, and the meters showing what appears to be full scale audio on the master. My outboard meters register the volume as full scale, but I don’t actually hear anything. Usually I force close the song and it comes back with no issues.

Maybe rebuild your template? What audio interface? What processs buffer setting? Are you pushing the mac hard ?
Click to expand...
I am using the Scarlett 2i2 for interface, buffer size is at 128. I'm not pushing the mac very hard, all of my libraries are in VEPro so the PC side is doing all the heavy lifting.
 
stingray306 said:
...

Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.
Click to expand...
Yikes, it's like walking and waiting for a potential land mine. Since I'm not a Logic user I hadn't heard about this before, I hope you completely recover (and the others that I'm finding out about). Not much to add other than I hope SOMEBODY sorts it out.

Whattya think, will you stay with Logic? I can at least vouch for Studio One (5 years) and then Cubase (2 years) with nothing like that happening. But ultimately that needs to be fixed, my goodness.
 
When I started using Cubase back in 2005 of something. I got this a few times. It was completely audio driver related. Then Cubase implemented this feature where if your driver crashed it would mute the audio outputs so you wouldn't get this. Then I only insisted on getting good audio interfaces with stable drivers and haven't had that problem since that time.

Changing your audio interface should solve it-- that Logic hasn't implemented that simple feature borders on cruel and inhumane.
 
stingray306 said:
For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud).
Click to expand...
Just to be a nerd for a moment, this is actually almost exactly how loud a 32-bit floating point audio stream can get (the bit depth most DAWs and plugins operate in). The full dynamic range of 32-bit audio is about 1600dB, and when you split that in half (positive and negative samples), you get about 800dB. The WNBOD is likely a corruption of the PCM stream, garbled binary. I've had similar things happen in Cubase when you replace a wav/aiff file the project is referencing with one in a new bit depth without "reloading" the file. Cubase reads it at the previous now-incorrect bit depth and runs through the bitstream incorrectly, resulting in intense full volume noise at the loudest signal producible by the previously assumed bit depth, reading x-bits of binary for each sample instead of y-bits. So if you replaced a 32-bit audio file with any other bit depth in Cubase without reloading the file, the result would likely be exactly the same as the WNBOD.

So all to say, the WNBOD problem in Logic could be as simple as Logic temporarily losing track of it's "place" in the bitstream? Obviously a catastrophic error though.

I also used to have this happen in Ableton from time to time when using certain plugins. It's absolutely terrifying. :shocked:
 
wow... I actually had a bunch of these in Cubase. 8-10 in different forms and volumes. It seemed to mostly be related to sample libraries that produced it (heard that from others too - not any particular ones, several developers), except one time when I previewed audio files in Cubase before importing them.
Here is an image from one a few weeks ago, I don't remember what caused it but I wasn't doing anything special. Not painful or dangerous, fully catched by limiter and Gclip.

572 dB.png

So far it hasn't been a problem and always entirely smoothed out by the limiter and Gclip (basic free clipper plugin, overly loud signal are just turned into distortion).
So I'm rather surprised and shocked that people have had hearing loss etc from it and that a limiter doesn't help... maybe it's something specific about the logic one...
Although if the actual signal before the limiter starts working is can get very loud it's possible ofc.. but in my case the actual track is already somewhat triggering it all the time, so nothing can get much louder than the track itself before the limiter punches it down. No idea how that can possibly fail.

One time I also received a beta library and some notes produced a white noise blast several times. They said it was due to the upload somehow and Kontakt produces white noise if it struggles to read a samples... perhaps related to what Paul wrote above. Not nearly as loud though, maybe 15-20 dB.
 
stingray306 said:
Yesterday I was working away on a project in Logic, and one of the tracks was buzzing a little bit (some sort of glitch). So I ended up deleting that track (as I didn't need it), and unloaded the sample library it was using in VEPro. Shortly after this, I got the "white noise blast of death". For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud). Some users have reported permanent hearing damage and tinnitus caused by the WNBOD, and neither Apple or the Logic community have found a solution. Unfortunately I was wearing headphones when this happened, so I experienced bad headaches and aching ears last night, and they were ringing for a few hours. Thankfully today my ears and hearing are back to normal.

Today, things seemed to be working fine in Logic until now -- my Logic tracks suddenly started switching volumes (some would suddenly be louder and some would suddenly be quiet, even though the volume / automation hadn't been changed). I had to go in and bump up volume on the now quiet tracks and turn down the too-loud tracks. Also, some tracks were registering on the Logic meter but were not actually playing any sound. VEPro seemed to be the culprit here -- the tracks were not registering on the sample library meters, but midi information was coming through. Immediately after these things started happening, the overall sound of the track began to buzz, and I started getting flashbacks to last night; the buzzing was the precursor to the white noise blast of death. I was too scared to even try to trouble-shoot, so I closed everything and shut down the computer. I'm not sure if the buzzing was caused by some damage to my headphones from the blast yesterday, or if it's a sign that another blast is coming.

Even though no one has figured out what causes this or why, I'm trying to gather some clues as to what might be the culprit. While a lot of people have had this problem in Logic before, I honestly think VEPro could be the culprit here. (I've experienced loud blasts in Logic in the past, but nothing like this).

One other thing that has been happening lately is that when I shut my computer off, either the computer or the speakers "pop" or "click", which has never happened until recently. The speakers or computer also makes a little pop/click sounds multiple times throughout the night when I'm not using it. (But keep in mind, the blast occurred through my headphones, so it isn't directly linked to the speakers -- maybe the audio interface?). Could this issue maybe be caused by an electricity problem? Bad cables/cords? I'm really not a tech person, but I am absolutely terrified of the WNBOD happening again. Any ideas or leads would be so greatly appreciated, even if it's a shot in the dark. I'll do anything.

Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.
Click to expand...
Rachel, the only sure way to secure your ears is to have a monitor controller for your speakers or a headphone amp with a physical level control. Software can malfunction and loud digital bursts can happen for many reasons - bad hard drive, RAM issues or bugs in software.

Unfortunately, no limiter or software can 100% protect you from this. A hardware controller is the only way. Some of these devices are not very expensive to get but they will go a long way to protect your ears.

A small pop/click during start-up and shut down is normal in many systems. My advice is to disconnect your headphones (before starting and shutting down) and in case of monitors:

1. Always switch on monitors last - after you have made sure there is no accidental loud sounds.

2. Always switch off monitors first so that turning on or off any switches does not initiate a pop/click.

This will protect your ears as well as your equipment.
 
Sticking a limiter on the master won't help I'm afraid. The noise burst bypasses everything straight to your interface and monitors. It's not just a logic issue either, it's systemwide. Have a search and you'll see people have had the same bursts in itunes, spotify, web browsers etc for years. It's certainly becoming more and more frequent in logic though. I've read it's a digital timing issue with core audio, but no-one can nail it down.

I've had it several times in logic too and it's scary and downright dangerous. I actually started a thread here a couple of months back asking for hardware recommendations to protect myself, but never received any answers. Perhaps someone could recommend something now which can be used with monitors and headphones?
 
Very interesting - and concerning. Although as several posts in this thread allude to, I am slow to believe it’s an issue exclusive to Logic. I’ve been a hard core Logic user for almost 30 years now and I’ve never experienced this. Not to say it can’t happen of course, but there are some good explanations above as to what is likely going on, and that it can happen in all sorts of scenarios.

One thing I have seen in all my years is projects getting corrupt, which can cause all sorts of issues. As a result, I’ve learned to be OCD about keeping fresh, clean copies of everything, especially my Logic preferences. The minute something acts strange, I instantly quit, replace my Logic prefs with the clean copies, and reboot. That sorts me out probably 99% of the time...
 
whinecellar said:
As a result, I’ve learned to be OCD about keeping fresh, clean copies of everything, especially my Logic preferences. The minute something acts strange, I instantly quit, replace my Logic prefs with the clean copies, and reboot. That sorts me out probably 99% of the time...
Click to expand...
Hey Jim, I assume this is a .plist file(s) somewhere? Do you mind sharing which one(s)?

I normally just trash the prefs... never though of saving a clean copy - good suggestion!
 
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