Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

How do you get out of that rut where your current setup just can't produce the sound you want?

I

InsomniaEmperor

Active Member
What primarily drives new library purchases for me is when I’m trying to do something and my setup just can’t give me the sound I want. I’ll use trumpets as an example. First I liked Metropolis Ark 1 Trumpets in my first few projects but it couldn’t do softer dynamics so I got VSL VI Fanfare Trumpets. It was good on a few projects but I ran into a point where neither trumpet library can give me the sound I want so I bought Berlin Brass Trumpets. Got me out of that bind and I got to produce two tracks with it but I ran into a case my current setup can’t do. VSL held a massive sale on the VI series so I snapped up the woodwinds and brass plus Berlin Studio went on sale so this allowed me to get out of that bind. I feel confident with the VI series because they have diverse articulation options and dynamic layers and hopefully this is all I need. But now I think I hit another snag and I just can’t get any of my libraries or tools to give me a realistic sound for my current project.

A rut like this is a major mood killer because I spend so much time adjusting parameters like microphones, dynamics, EQ, etc but I’m not able to arrive at a good sound. I could spend hours tweaking but it can only go so far. Buying a new library that has that sound you need for that case sounds like a quick fix but it’s expensive. Maybe I’m less likely to run into this rut if I have Spitfite Symphonic/Studio Brass, Cinebrass, Cinematic Studio Brass, Modern Scoring Brass, Century Brass, JXL, etc cause I’d have a large toolbox to deal with all sorts of cases but it’s just expensive and not worth it to get them all.

How would you get out of this rut without needing to spend hundreds of dollars every time it happens? I don’t have strings yet and this is a situation I fear. I do a lot of mock ups and you quickly run into a library’s limitations with it. My plan for strings is something like Venice Modern Strings + VSL VI Orchestral Strings + Berlin Symphonic Strings in hopes of handling as many use cases as I can with three string libraries but I fear that it’s not enough and I’ll run into some rut some point where I can’t proceed.
Click to read more...
 
InsomniaEmperor said:
What primarily drives new library purchases for me is when I’m trying to do something and my setup just can’t give me the sound I want. I’ll use trumpets as an example. First I liked Metropolis Ark 1 Trumpets in my first few projects but it couldn’t do softer dynamics so I got VSL VI Fanfare Trumpets. It was good on a few projects but I ran into a point where neither trumpet library can give me the sound I want so I bought Berlin Brass Trumpets. Got me out of that bind and I got to produce two tracks with it but I ran into a case my current setup can’t do. VSL held a massive sale on the VI series so I snapped up the woodwinds and brass plus Berlin Studio went on sale so this allowed me to get out of that bind. I feel confident with the VI series because they have diverse articulation options and dynamic layers and hopefully this is all I need. But now I think I hit another snag and I just can’t get any of my libraries or tools to give me a realistic sound for my current project.

A rut like this is a major mood killer because I spend so much time adjusting parameters like microphones, dynamics, EQ, etc but I’m not able to arrive at a good sound. I could spend hours tweaking but it can only go so far. Buying a new library that has that sound you need for that case sounds like a quick fix but it’s expensive. Maybe I’m less likely to run into this rut if I have Spitfite Symphonic/Studio Brass, Cinebrass, Cinematic Studio Brass, Modern Scoring Brass, Century Brass, JXL, etc cause I’d have a large toolbox to deal with all sorts of cases but it’s just expensive and not worth it to get them all.

How would you get out of this rut without needing to spend hundreds of dollars every time it happens? I don’t have strings yet and this is a situation I fear. I do a lot of mock ups and you quickly run into a library’s limitations with it. My plan for strings is something like Venice Modern Strings + VSL VI Orchestral Strings + Berlin Symphonic Strings in hopes of handling as many use cases as I can with three string libraries but I fear that it’s not enough and I’ll run into some rut some point where I can’t proceed.
Click to expand...

Be honest to yourself - do you really need new/different sounds every time that happens, or do you just need the dopamine from buying something new to get you writing at all? I bet a lot of hobbyists here can relate to the later.
 
MartinH. said:
Be honest to yourself - do you really need new/different sounds every time that happens, or do you just need the dopamine from buying something new to get you writing at all? I bet a lot of hobbyists here can relate to the later.
Click to expand...
At this point, the cost of getting a new brass library heavily outweighs the possible GAS and dopamine from getting one. SINE OT and VSL VI stuff can be bought a la carte so it was easier to spend money to get out of that rut. Something like Spitfire Symphonic Brass is still hundreds at best and not even Century Brass’s deep sale is making me budge.

maxbedroom said:
Have you tried layering them? One lib might lack bite or detail, another might lack smoothness. Combine their strengths as needed
Click to expand...
Yeah I did that before with Metropolis Ark and VSL Fanfare Trumpets in one project. Tho the question now becomes when does layering become excessive.
 
Trumpets are the Achilles Heel of sample libraries. Nothing out there sounds like a real trumpet or trumpets. The best you can do is fake it. The best way to fake it is to learn about the instrument, listen to how the good players play it and cobble together the best performances you can. It can be done, but it takes really knowing what the instrument can do and knowing what your library is capable of.

In the end it isn't about finding the sound you want it's about having choices and using the library that best fits your needs.
 
José Herring said:
Trumpets are the Achilles Heel of sample libraries. Nothing out there sounds like a real trumpet or trumpets. The best you can do is fake it. The best way to fake it is to learn about the instrument, listen to how the good players play it and cobble together the best performances you can. It can be done, but it takes really knowing what the instrument can do and knowing what your library is capable of.

In the end it isn't about finding the sound you want it's about having choices and using the library that best fits your needs.
Click to expand...
I agree, Jose.

Currently there is no sample library that could convey the beautiful smooth sound of a pro trumpeter, such as this:


But of course it depends on what you need exactly, how many tracks you are making, and the cost of hiring someone.
 
Haven’t really had a problem of feeling a NEED for new orchestral samples since investing into the OT system with some of their bonkers package blowout sales.

If Berlin can’t handle something, the Arks or JXLB probably can. If they can’t, Sample Modeling through Berlin Studio or Aaron Venture through the Mozarteum can pull it off and don’t stand out in a distracting way when nestled into Teldex samples.

Most things these days are novelties or Pokemon acquisitions. Still waiting on a definitive studio orchestra though. Those are harder to come by while waiting for ISW to finish the Tokyo Scoring series.
 
There's a high chance that the libraries aren't the issue, but something else along the way. Maybe post examples of what you've written and the sound you're going for. It could get you closer to the sound you want, and save you money!
 
Casiquire said:
There's a high chance that the libraries aren't the issue, but something else along the way. Maybe post examples of what you've written and the sound you're going for. It could get you closer to the sound you want, and save you money!
Click to expand...
I’m at work so I can’t give an example right now.

I’m trying to mock-up something where it has 3 cornet parts and they do more of the higher parts than trumpets. While the VSL cornet is fantastic alone, it starts phasing and gets synthy when I layer three of them even if I use transposition technique or the VI Player’s humanize feature. If I try playing them on trumpets instead, it doesn’t sound quite the same and phasing happens when it’s in unison with the 2 separate trumpet parts.

I can’t think of other cornet libraries so buying is thankfully not the solution here.
 
José Herring said:
Trumpets are the Achilles Heel of sample libraries. Nothing out there sounds like a real trumpet or trumpets. The best you can do is fake it. The best way to fake it is to learn about the instrument, listen to how the good players play it and cobble together the best performances you can. It can be done, but it takes really knowing what the instrument can do and knowing what your library is capable of.

In the end it isn't about finding the sound you want it's about having choices and using the library that best fits your needs.
Click to expand...
I don’t know. The orchestral instrument I struggle most with is clarinet. I like your namesake for some things but like all clarinets it quickly hits a limit. In terms of brass, trombones give me more trouble than trumpets. Sampled bones snarl well and you can blow the roof off with them, just like the real instrument, but they struggle on most everything else, especially on soft sustains. For whatever reason sampled trombones also rarely sound right in the range around and above middle C, which is a lovely sound with a real trombone but you’d never know it if you only work with sample libraries.
 
InsomniaEmperor said:
First I liked Metropolis Ark 1 Trumpets in my first few projects but it couldn’t do softer dynamics so I got VSL VI Fanfare Trumpets.
Click to expand...
Ark 1 trumpets have always been by far the worst instrument of the library in my opinion. So shrill and metallic. I only used the flutter crescendo.
InsomniaEmperor said:
How would you get out of this rut without needing to spend hundreds of dollars every time it happens?
Click to expand...
Why not go full circle with your purchased libraries and return to your first ones? Try something new with them and rediscover the library. Maybe you'll get the dopamine again you've got the first time.

So, for me, I'll have to go back the Ark 1 trumpets ...
 
I assume you chose something ambitious to mockup and well, samples can't do a lot of things. If you are trying to mockup 3 cornet part, buying 16 cornet libraries won't make that mockup better. It will make it more of a mess / headache with different rooms, different plugins etc. And I agree with words above - sharing audio example of what you have and what you want to get would make the helping process much easier. Maybe all you need to do is EQ instead of buying another library ;) The good thing is that it looks you have some money to burn so... buy another cornet library just to find out its still not the thing you wanted.

Also diverging from source material is not a criminal offence, change instrumentation a bit, use something in similar tone, you won't go to jail for that. Be creative, think on how to fix the issue with tools you have, go outside your "fixed rut", make it a challenge. And bear in mind that samples are not as flexible as real musicians, you sometimes need to bend your ideas to samples and be realistic about it.
 
Last edited:
In the first example you knew exactly what you wanted in a trumpets library and therefore knew exactly what to buy. I call that a win. But the rest from there felt pretty vague. You're looking for a 'sound,' which can mean any number of things

Not sure what to offer besides what the others have said. I'd double down on being specific with my needs. Libraries come in all sorts of strengths and weaknesses and often you get to a certain point where working with what you have beats throwing money at the problem
 
I think this is a valid case for purchasing new tools. I do the same.

But you could consider your problem definition, are you addressing the right problem? Could it be a mix problem instead, so you don't need a new instrument..

.. but rather a new mix approach, or tool, instead? :whistling:
 
Piotrek K. said:
I assume you chose something ambitious to mockup and well, samples can't do a lot of things. If you are trying to mockup 3 cornet part, buying 16 cornet libraries won't make that mockup better. It will make it more of a mess / headache with different rooms, different plugins etc. And I agree with words above - sharing audio example of what you have and what you want to get would make the helping process much easier. Maybe all you need to do is EQ instead of buying another library ;) The good thing is that it looks you have some money to burn so... buy another cornet library just to find out its still not the thing you wanted.

Also diverging from source material is not a criminal offence, change instrumentation a bit, use something in similar tone, you won't go to jail for that. Be creative, think on how to fix the issue with tools you have, go outside your "fixed rut", make it a challenge. And bear in mind that samples are not as flexible as real musicians, you sometimes need to bend your ideas to samples and be realistic about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah I chose a Grade 6 concert band piece to mock up. A big reason I chose the VSL VI series is it has a lot of articulations and dynamic layers so I’m much less likely to get stuck as far as techniques go. Nothing really comes close to their arsenal of techniques A downside of this seems to be the sound which is super dry which is why I got Berlin Studio and was looking at other reverb packs.

I don’t think I have much to gain from another cornet sampler at this point unless it’s a deeply sampled cornet a3 which I don’t see happening so I gotta work with what’s available.

I’m not that stubborn that I won’t ditch cornet for trumpets since even real bands would do that. Tho I’m trying to see how much I can work with it then if it just doesn’t sound as good as I hope, then I’ll deploy one of my existing trumpet libraries.

But this is just one case. I fear that strings will be a lot harder to get right cause I see people usually have a lot of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom