Stormdrum or Damage 2
- Thread starter utkujj
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doctoremmet
Senior Member
Simply put: no. You have a lot of perfectly fine and great sounding percussion options. I’d buy something new as soon as your music or compositions ask for something specific and then go look for a fitting addition to your arsenal, rather than letting the available options cloud your judgment. Also, Damage 2 sounds like “too epic” an option for your personal preferences?
As for “easy blending” libraries, I feel this forum has a bit of an overfocus on how “hard” it is in practice to mix sampled recordings together and how it takes all sorts of wizardry involving convolution reverbs to create a perfect match. I mean, of course there are certain ways to achieve this, but most of us could better spend their time making sure their orchestration and arrangement make sense and improve, rather than spending a lot of time contemplating mixing options, mic positions etcetera. I am speaking for myself here, maybe you’re already on a level where you need to worry about the blending properties of libraries of course
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doctoremmet
Senior Member
Also, small nitpick: it’s Stormdrum - not ~drummer
If you want to find out if and what it might add to your composing game, you could consider subscribing to Eastwest’s service for a month or two and find out. Nothing beats an actual demo. You’ll also have the chance to find out the exact differences between 2 and 3.
Eastwest have this summary on their site:
If you want to find out if and what it might add to your composing game, you could consider subscribing to Eastwest’s service for a month or two and find out. Nothing beats an actual demo. You’ll also have the chance to find out the exact differences between 2 and 3.
Eastwest have this summary on their site:
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
As a pro violinist blending libraries is most difficult part for me.I can compose nicely and having good time with it all that moments.But in blending part i feel confused quickly.Thanks for the answer.Do u have sd?. I mean, of course there are certain ways to achieve this, but most of us could better spend their time making sure their orchestration and arrangement make sense and improve, rather than spending a lot of time contemplating mixing options, mic positions etcetera. I am speaking for myself here, maybe you’re already on a level where you need to worry about the blending properties of libraries of course
doctoremmet
Senior Member
In that case it seems like a good idea to experiment a bit more with mixing tools like EQ and reverb etc. to get a better feel for that part and to spend some time ’blending’. I guess I have bad ears and / or am more easily satisfied than most on here, when it comes to using and combining libraries from various developers. Being a pro violinist your ears may well be more critical than mine
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
Its like a curse man.I can easily hear the problems but i can’t find the solutions sometimes.Being a pro violinist you’re ears may well be more critical than mine
doctoremmet
Senior Member
The thing with using samples is: do not ever realistically expect them to sound like an actual orchestra
Instrumental Music Media
Sonic Storyteller
I have neither but I can recommend the ones I think go well with orchestral music strezov x3m percussion essentials also spitfire audio originals cinematic percussion projectsam true strike 2 and Soundiron apocalypse percussion elements ! all these have a nice blend of tone to mix and match with strings best wishes Phil
GravitySequence
New Member
I own both StormDrum 2 & 3 and i have noticed several things so far.
And if you're one that buys many libraries, just know that you're still able to create amazing results even with one of them, after all it's the composer that makes the library worth it not the other way around.
Take my words with a grain of salt, i don't consider myself to be that well versed when it comes to reviewing VSTs, overall this is just my general opinion.
- StormDrum 2 seems more focused on bigger, more classic cinematic percussion
- The SD2 Samples on their own sound really wet even with the internal reverb turned off
- The SD2 Percussion sounds really amazing even on its own, i'd say it's amazing for epic drum ensembles and even for big drum atmos.
- StormDrum 3 seems more focused on less known, more obscure percussion sets as compared to StormDrum 2, it feels more like an addendum of SD2 than a product that can deal its own in drum ensembles, i can achieve good results with SD3 alone but i find SD2 more versatile when it comes to making drum ensembles, with SD3 creating nice additional layers that fit.
- StormDrum 3 has dryer samples with only the acoustics of the stage they were recorded in serving as a natural reverb, however StormDrum 3 has an internal reverb (the one in OPUS) that works better with the SD3 samples, still being able to deliver menacing and booming drums as a result.
- The more powerful drums that were recorded in SD2 sound way more naturally wet than the ones that were recorded in StormDrum 3, they're already very powerful to use, being able to deliver very convincing results.
And if you're one that buys many libraries, just know that you're still able to create amazing results even with one of them, after all it's the composer that makes the library worth it not the other way around.
Take my words with a grain of salt, i don't consider myself to be that well versed when it comes to reviewing VSTs, overall this is just my general opinion.
jbuhler
Senior Member
I find wet libraries recorded in situ are the easiest to get to sit together so long as they use more or less the same seating plan. Dry libraries are generally harder at least in part because you have to worry about positioning especially in depth, which is easy enough in theory but harder to pull of convincingly in practice, at least in my experience. Berlin Studio has been very helpful for that. Others use MIR. There are in fact a bunch of plugins that help with this, which suggests it’s a problem that many struggle with, or that the task is not easily accomplished. At least that’s my take away.
I find percussion in particular often hard to push suitably into depth if it hasn’t been recorded wet. And when it’s wet it often has an unappealing dull character. It’s a constant struggle.
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
I totally agree.You said sd3 is more wet so it will be advantage for me maybe.I will blend this with Medieval Era 2 and CSS+CSW+CSB.So do you think Sd3 will be okay for me? And which one is easier to use?
Thank you for your post!
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
I had issues with Century Brass to mix with CSS.I read some articles about close mic positions are better for glue.CB have bad close mic sounds.I tought like perc library dryness would be a advantage but im unexperienced in mix stage so any tips about that will be great.Thanks!!
jbuhler
Senior Member
I find dry libraries much harder to work. They are more flexible, but also (I would say) more finicky, easier to misplace and sound off. With percussion I find dryness tends to bring everything close and it’s hard to get them to sit back in the mix, as you’d want especially for percussion mixed with orchestra. I mean folks manage to do it and to make it sound lovely so it’s not that it can’t be done. But I don’t find it easy.
Personally I’ve never had much luck with Century Brass. Whereas SF brass (SSB, Abbey Road, Albions, even their dryish studio series) and OT brass (THB, Berlin, the Arks except 3, Modus) sit together very well without needing much attention at all.
In any case if you are using close mics you will need to be positioning the instruments and you will need to be using the ratio between the mic signal and the wet reverb signal on the early reflections to place the instrument in depth. Any glue, as I understand it, would come from a tail reverb. That can give you more control and there’s an argument that the instruments will sound more like they are in the same space because they are all being processed in an analogous way. It’s a great theory. But personally I don’t find that to be the case. Or what I do find to be the case is that wet libraries recorded in situ tend to work together reasonably well without much work. In any case I don’t have to fiddle with them nearly to the same extent as I have to fiddle with seating dry libraries in a mix.
JohnG
Senior Member
I don’t think so.
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Since you’re a violinist, trust your ears, as you probably have excellent ones. The advice you’ve received here is pretty mixed, in my view. I’ve spent a lot of time with many of these libraries you’re considering and I’m pretty surprised by some of what people are saying about them.
Subjective Views
StormDrum3 is more natural / acoustic sounding and really top-notch sampling. I think it may be their best-sampled drum library when it comes to capturing the natural sound of percussion. By contrast, StormDrum2 is a more processed sound overall, though it too has plenty of natural-sounding material. The other thing is that StormDrum2 and Damage 1 have quite a bit of intention in common, so if you want to broaden the palette, StormDrum3 will do that more likely. But listen carefully to be certain StormDrum3 has the kinds of drums you really want. It’s somewhat on the non-traditional side.
Damage 2 is absolutely awesome sounding right out of the box, though it’s pretty “big” in its default state. If you glance through the manual, however, you’ll find that it’s very easy to position the Damage 2 drums closer or further away, and customize the sound in other ways (more or less reverb, for example). It is edited with tremendous care, which with percussion is vital, as otherwise you can end up with round robins that don’t strike on the beat and other problems like that. It’s a superb library and one that requires a lot less fiddling around than many others — one of my favourites.
The Strezov drums are a very good suggestion, since they come with quite a bit of variety.
Whoever said “close mics are better for glue” has been sniffing some (glue, that is).
Good luck and again, trust your ears.
[note: I have received free products from East West and Strezov Sampling]
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
Thank you for all of your advices.Do you think sd3 needs effects for have cinematic sound or can it be use directly?
And do you think can damage 2 will cover my melodic orchestration expectations rather than really big epic scores?
doctoremmet
Senior Member
Can I ask you something @utkujj - why the exclusive focus on these three percussion libraries? Have you narrowed the entire field of options down to these three? In terms of sounds that speak to you / your taste?
Because there are many other options as well of course, especially if you’re looking for more orchestral / cinematic - as opposed to epic - options, Cineperc comes to mind (a revered and extensive collection of very well recorded percussion samples), as do the VSL options. Spitfire has some excellent “wet” (Air Lyndhurst / Abbey Road Studio One) orchestral percussion options as well. Or, upgrade your current Essentials version of the NI Symphony Series to the full version. Crossgrades are often sold for really low prices in the Sell / Buy section of this forum.
Because there are many other options as well of course, especially if you’re looking for more orchestral / cinematic - as opposed to epic - options, Cineperc comes to mind (a revered and extensive collection of very well recorded percussion samples), as do the VSL options. Spitfire has some excellent “wet” (Air Lyndhurst / Abbey Road Studio One) orchestral percussion options as well. Or, upgrade your current Essentials version of the NI Symphony Series to the full version. Crossgrades are often sold for really low prices in the Sell / Buy section of this forum.
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
I split my ideas to two things.One of them is orchestral percussion and other is more cinematic percussion.I am thinking like i can cover orchestral side with Symphony series and damage for other side.But damage is old and little bit too epic(maybe synthetic i could say other hand)for me.Im looking for complete to my cinematic percussion template with ideal library.Cineperc is looking great but too much pennies for me.
JohnG
Senior Member
Hi @utkujj
I appreciate that you are doing well in English, which I am guessing is not your first language.
That said, you have mentioned "melodic" several times and, to me, that means "pitched." in the percussion family, that would include vibraphone, glockenspiel and other pitched instruments. By contrast, the libraries you have mentioned are predominantly unpitched percussion, and don't have very much (if any) pitched instruments.
Maybe you could clarify that for us and you'd get more helpful suggestions.
I understand it might seem too expensive but I suggest:
1. Contact the library to find out if you can get a discount as a teacher. Your profile says you are in the State Opera orchestra (congratulations!) and possibly you teach students, which might qualify you for an educational discount;
2. Consider postponing a purchase for now and save until you can get what you really want. It is sometimes a mistake to compromise on sample purchases. If you know what you want, it might be better to wait a bit and see if a discount is offered;
3. Contact the developer online and see if they could offer you a discount based on your location or some other reason. Sometimes developers who have just finished a Christmas sale or are thinking of offering a discount soon will allow you to buy at the lower price.
Again, I think you should trust your own ears when making your choice, rather than relying on me or anyone else.
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utkujj
First violin section member in State Opera
Yes i was speaking good when i was young but i can’t speak proper nowadays.I didn’t mean pitched instruments.I mean acoustic percussion or maybe ethnic kind of drums.Perfect word for this is ‘organic’ i think.Cuz damage 1 have good hybrid sound.Stormdrum have more organic sound i suppouse but Damage 2 is easy to mix it with other libraries.I don’t know..
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