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Sample Modeling - Solo & Ensemble Strings : Tips, Tricks, Demos, Tutorials.

muziksculp

muziksculp

Senior Member
Hi,

Greetings Sample Modeling : Solo & Ensemble Strings users, I thought this would be a good place to post your tips, tricks, demos, videos, tutorials, questions, and other related technical details related to this library.

Hopefully it will help us enjoy using this library, and harness it's potential to a higher degree, also share our knowledge, and learn how others are using it. It surely is a deep library, and quite flexible, with so many options, controls, and sound sculpting features, plus the techniques of how to spatialize the library to add depth, and realistic panorama is another important part of using this library.

So, Let's make this happen, I hope you will benefit from this thread's posts, and resources.

I would also like to invite the seasoned SM Solo & Ens. Strings users that have produced official demos for this library, to participate in this thread, I'm sure they have a wealth of useful tips for us.

Thanks,
Muziksculp
Click to read more...
 
I was actually testing the new VSL Synchron harp and added S&ES violin, viola, cello and double bass ensembles along with a bassoon & English horn. They almost sound flautando at very low levels. I should have tried with the chamber ensembles. Very short test.
 

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  • Misterioso.mp3
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PerryD said:
I was actually testing the new VSL Synchron harp and added S&ES violin, viola, cello and double bass ensembles along with a bassoon & English horn. They almost sound flautando at very low levels. I should have tried with the chamber ensembles. Very short test.
Click to expand...
Sounds Wonderful
PerryD said:
They almost sound flautando at very low levels.
Click to expand...
Yes, they do, are you referring to the level you mixed them in, or the low dynamics level via CC11 ?

PerryD said:
I should have tried with the chamber ensembles
Click to expand...
I'm sure you will like the chamber ensembles, those are the ones I have been checking out, since they are the newcomers to this library.

The VSL Synchron Harp sounds awesome ! What did you use for the Bassoon and Eng. Horn ?

Reminded me of Bernard Hermann's scores.

Thanks for contributing to this thread. :thumbsup:
 
muziksculp said:
Sounds Wonderful

Yes, they do, are you referring to the level you mixed them in, or the low dynamics level via CC11 ?


I'm sure you will like the chamber ensembles, those are the ones I have been checking out, since they are the newcomers to this library.

The VSL Synchron Harp sounds awesome ! What did you use for the Bassoon and Eng. Horn ?

Reminded me of Bernard Hermann's scores.

Thanks for contributing to this thread. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Thanks! Low CC11 (CC2 in my case). I am using S&ES in keyboard mode with CC11 remapped to CC2 so I can use my BC and still take advantage of the new velocity attack ramp in v2. I purchased Synchron woodwinds but those were SWAM v3 bassoon & english horn. I actually prefer the SWAM soloists over VSL!
 
PerryD said:
Thanks! Low CC11 (CC2 in my case). I am using S&ES in keyboard mode with CC11 remapped to CC2 so I can use my BC and still take advantage of the new velocity attack ramp in v2. I purchased Synchron woodwinds but those were SWAM v3 bassoon & english horn. I actually prefer the SWAM soloists over VSL!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback.
 
Hi,

OK, here is my first contribution to this thread. It's a simple tip, but it is quite an important one. If you haven't done this, I highly recommend you do it.

TIP : GREATLY IMPROVE THE VELOCITY RESPOSNE of the library.

1. Click on the Velocity Mapping option.

This is how it looks when you open it :



2. Click on Calibration button

3. Now play your keyboard controller keys with as many velocity variations as possible, keep doing that and you will see the curve shape changing, until you see no more changes in the curve, then click the Calibration button again to disable it.

4. Click on the Synchronize Ensemble button.

This is how my curve looks after playing various velocity levels on my keyboard controller :



Doing this process will greatly improve the response of the SM Solo & Ensemble Strings library to your keyboard playing, and result in much more satisfying results. I then save the Kontakt Instrument as a custom preset so I don't have to do it every time I load a fresh version of the library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
 
Last edited:
@Fa, thanks a lot for your response.

I've been demoing VSS2 and Precedence with SM strings lately. Also have been using Panagement for a while now. I'm still experimenting with it all, haven't reached any conclusions.

Yesterday and this morning I've been using Panagement + IR impulses from Waves library. I've been able to keep just the ERs with Reaverb (Reaper's convolution reverb) and handle the tails with Phoenixverb and R2.

Also demoed Waves IR1 but in the end, Reaverb was able to handle all I needed. Looks like crap but it's quite powerful.

My current experimenting is between using just the IR ERs or also the tails and testing combinations of that.

My experience so far is great, though. I particularly like what convolution reverbs do to the library. I feel they add a more organic feeling than algo reverbs. That + playing the same part with different ensemble divisis sound quite realistic to my ears.

As soon as I have something decent I'll post it.
 
Ivan Duch said:
@Fa, thanks a lot for your response.

I've been demoing VSS2 and Precedence with SM strings lately. Also have been using Panagement for a while now. I'm still experimenting with it all, haven't reached any conclusions.

Yesterday and this morning I've been using Panagement + IR impulses from Waves library. I've been able to keep just the ERs with Reaverb (Reaper's convolution reverb) and handle the tails with Phoenixverb and R2.

Also demoed Waves IR1 but in the end, Reaverb was able to handle all I needed. Looks like crap but it's quite powerful.

My current experimenting is between using just the IR ERs or also the tails and testing combinations of that.

My experience so far is great, though. I particularly like what convolution reverbs do to the library. I feel they add a more organic feeling than algo reverbs. That + playing the same part with different ensemble divisis sound quite realistic to my ears.

As soon as I have something decent I'll post it.
Click to expand...
Heh. Funny you wrote this because this week I've built a new template and the first thing on the agenda (and what I planned to test later this week) is to use a combination of Panagement 2 + stock Convo + playing the same line with the 2 or 3 divisis of the chamber strings. I think it'll sound much crisper, something that was missing the last time.

So my tip (a very basic one) is to load 3 violin 1 chamber sections, then use different IRs for each, then use different vibrato depth + speed + controls on pages 2 + 3.

You'll get decent initial results. I need to test these much more but this has been a good start.

Only issue is that you'll have a LOT of instances of the strings going at the same time...
 
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I like music said:
Heh. Funny you wrote this because this week I've built a new template and the first thing on the agenda (and what I planned to test later this week) is to use a combination of Panagement 2 + stock Convo + playing the same line with the 2 or 3 divisis of the chamber strings. I think it'll sound much crisper, something that was missing the last time.

So my tip (a very basic one) is to load 3 violin 1 chamber sections, then use different IRs for each, then use different vibrato depth + speed + controls on pages 2 + 3.

You'll get decent initial results. I need to test these much more but this has been a good start.

Only issue is that you'll have a LOT of instances of the strings going at the same time...
Click to expand...
Yes, very similar tests on my end, and quite happy with the results so far. I have a "feel like working" and a lazy version so far. For the lazy version, I duplicate the midi and humanize it with some scripts I have for Reaper. But I get better results when playing it.

I think the most reasonable workflow is probably leaving that for the final touches of the production and freezing those tracks to save on CPU.
 
Markrs said:
Room encoder looks very interesting! A quick looks shows these are pretty complex tools will above my ability.
Click to expand...
Looks like you need to feed the ambisonic output of the room encoder to the AIIRdecoder in which you create a speaker setup. I am not at my PC right now, but will play with them later…
 
Ivan Duch said:
@Fa, thanks a lot for your response.

I've been demoing VSS2 and Precedence with SM strings lately. Also have been using Panagement for a while now. I'm still experimenting with it all, haven't reached any conclusions.

Yesterday and this morning I've been using Panagement + IR impulses from Waves library. I've been able to keep just the ERs with Reaverb (Reaper's convolution reverb) and handle the tails with Phoenixverb and R2.

Also demoed Waves IR1 but in the end, Reaverb was able to handle all I needed. Looks like crap but it's quite powerful.

My current experimenting is between using just the IR ERs or also the tails and testing combinations of that.

My experience so far is great, though. I particularly like what convolution reverbs do to the library. I feel they add a more organic feeling than algo reverbs. That + playing the same part with different ensemble divisis sound quite realistic to my ears.

As soon as I have something decent I'll post it.
Click to expand...
I wonder if VSS2 is now abandonware. There have been complaints of people struggling to get support. It is quite expensive, so I gave up on it due to this.

I really like using Panagement as a positioning tool, it has a natural darkening effect that I really like, and it is very light, specially if you disable the reverb, so you can insert it at every channel.

I also love DearVR as an alternative. It has a very clear definition, and I really enjoy it for brass. I'm still testing it with SM Strings, though, but liking it so far. I usually don't use the built-in Reverb as it has a metallic sound to it, but you can disable the Reverb and ERs separately.

DearVR had a hefty sale just recently. If you end up testing it, you can use DearVR Music instead of DearVR Pro, as the differences are mostly related to ambisonics and the cost is much better.
 
muziksculp said:
Hi,

OK, here is my first contribution to this thread. It's a simple tip, but it is quite an important one. If you haven't done this, I highly recommend you do it.

TIP : GREATLY IMPROVE THE VELOCITY RESPOSNE of the library.

1. Click on the Velocity Mapping option.

This is how it looks when you open it :



2. Click on Calibration button

3. Now play your keyboard controller keys with as many velocity variations as possible, keep doing that and you will see the curve shape changing, until you see no more changes in the curve, then click the Calibration button again to disable it.

This is how my curve looks after playing various velocity levels on my keyboard controller :



Doing this process will greatly improve the response of the SM Solo & Ensemble Strings library to your keyboard playing, and result in much more satisfying results. I then save the Kontakt Instrument as a custom preset so I don't have to do it every time I load a fresh version of the library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Click to expand...
Good tip but this is useful only if you play in all the notes with your keyboard. If you want to have an hybrid approach and you also draw in the notes maybe it could be difficult.
 
muziksculp said:
Hi,

OK, here is my first contribution to this thread. It's a simple tip, but it is quite an important one. If you haven't done this, I highly recommend you do it.

TIP : GREATLY IMPROVE THE VELOCITY RESPOSNE of the library.

1. Click on the Velocity Mapping option.

This is how it looks when you open it :



2. Click on Calibration button

3. Now play your keyboard controller keys with as many velocity variations as possible, keep doing that and you will see the curve shape changing, until you see no more changes in the curve, then click the Calibration button again to disable it.

This is how my curve looks after playing various velocity levels on my keyboard controller :



Doing this process will greatly improve the response of the SM Solo & Ensemble Strings library to your keyboard playing, and result in much more satisfying results. I then save the Kontakt Instrument as a custom preset so I don't have to do it every time I load a fresh version of the library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Click to expand...
Very good tip, Musiksculp. Some small, but important corrections, though. For solo instruments, after Calibration, one must disable the Calibration button and activate the Mapping button, so that the calibration curve is applied to all incoming notes. For Chamber & Ensemble instruments, after carrying out these steps on the first module, one should press the SYNCHRONIZE ENSEMBLE button, and the calibration curve will be applied to all four modules.

Giorgio
 

Attachments

  • Velocity Cal 1.jpg
    Velocity Cal 1.jpg
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Giorgio Tommasini said:
Very good tip, Musiksculp. Some small, but important corrections, though. For solo instruments, after Calibration, one must disable the Calibration button and activate the Mapping button, so that the calibration curve is applied to all incoming notes. For Chamber & Ensemble instruments, after carrying out these steps on the first module, one should press the SYNCHRONIZE ENSEMBLE button, and the calibration curve will be applied to all four modules.

Giorgio
Click to expand...
HI @Giorgio Tommasini ,

Thanks for the corrections, I forgot that the Calibration for the Solo Instruments is a bit different, since they do not have a Synchronization option.

The Synchronize Ensemble button must always be pressed when editing the Ensembles, so I thought that was a given, but Thanks for adding that detail to the tip. I added this to my post (Step 4).
 
Hi,

Here is a useful summery of how CC38, CC26, CC27 and Velocity work together In version 2.0.1 which has changed from the way these used to work in the previous 1.0.2 b version.

CC38 Values of around 64 (in the range of 55-74) will play Sustains, and Velocities under 100.
CC38 Values Less than 64 (in the range of 0-54) will play Marcatos, and Velocities over 100.
CC38 Values Greater than 64 (in the range of 75-127) will play Spiccatos, and Velocities over 100.

* Note The Spicatto, and Marcato samples are only added when you play velocities over 100. If you play velocities under 100, you only get the normal sustain samples.

* Note that the CC38 values will progressively introduce more or less Marcatos, or Spiccatos in the conditions specified above.

CC26 Controls the Duration of the Marcato Attack so, it is dedicated to Marcato control
CC27 Controls the Length of the Spiccato Release so, it is dedicated to Spiccato control
 
Last edited:
Hi,

Just a heads up on the new Ver 2.0.1 library.

I just got an email with a download link for Solo Violin that fixes a bug it had, that under some circumstances it did not properly play some release samples.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
 
muziksculp said:
Hi,

Here is a useful summery of how CC38, CC26, CC27 and Velocity work together In version 2.0.1 which has changed from the way these used to work in the previous 1.0.2 b version.

CC38 Values of around 64 (in the range of 55-74) will play Sustains, and Velocities under 100.
CC38 Values Less than 64 (in the range of 0-54) will play Marcatos, and Velocities over 100.
CC38 Values Greater than 64 (in the range of 75-127) will play Spiccatos, and Velocities over 100.

Note that the CC38 values will progressively introduce more or less Marcatos, or Spiccatos in the conditions specified above.

CC26 Controls the Duration of the Marcato Attack so, it is dedicated to Marcato control
CC27 Controls the Length of the Spiccato Release so, it is dedicated to Spiccato control
Click to expand...
Thank you. What happens if the velocities are under 100 in your 2nd and 3rd examples?

Thanks!
 
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