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Do you copy and paste modulation data when writing strings parts?

Rossy

Rossy

Senior Member
As I scour the internet on how to make my string parts sound "beautiful and lush" I have noticed how uneven my modulation is as I record each part individually using my mod wheel while playing. I was wondering is I could just record modulation on 1st violins and then copy and paste it onto the rest of the string instruments? I'm concerned that it may sound a bit "robotic". If this wont work, can anyone give me a suggestion on how to maintain a somewhat even modulation while recording with the mod wheel of is it just a matter of practice?
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To avoid the dreaded 'accordion' effect, I would strongly urge you to not copy paste any CC data. And I would only use the CC data you record with the Mod wheel as a reference. IMO, best results come from drawing in curves and nudging curves and ramps slightly to get the timing spot on.
 
Yeah I copy and paste data between parts all the time, saves so much time and makes it sound much more like they're playing together - just editing small parts here and there where a section needs to be brought out more or less. Generally I would say that what sounds like a natural amount of dynamics on an individual section might feel like too much when copypasted to all the others and playing together, so might need dialling back a bit.
 
I find it important to give individual lines individual dynamics. Not so much for 8 bars of a static one chord crescendo. But leading tones to target notes have an different job as the bass notes or top notes of a chord. So no copy/paste there. It makes "the" difference.
 
I don't copy-paste Modulation data cause 1) The dynamics curves on different sections, libraries and even particular notes might not be "equal" 2) I find that often in my writing different sections play different roles so each need its own Modulation data, though sometimes copy-pasting can be good, but again I'd play it in anyway)
 
Context is everything and it comes down to your taste, but I do have some generalizations for myself. If the strings are basically being used as pads in the background, I might copy-paste. If the lines are very independent though, the dynamics should be too. If the cellos and bass are holding down the rhythm in octaves, violas are doing a rhythm/harmony thing, and violins are playing the melody in octaves, I'd copy paste my cello and bass line, and I'd copy paste the violin line--not just the CCs but the notes and timing as well. This helps it feel like the players are working together. The violas are doing their own thing, so they get their own dynamics. If it's just polyphonic writing, the writing itself demands independent dynamics and it would sound very odd if the dynamics were shared across parts

Hope this helps!
 
+1 to what everybody wrote about creating different cc1 curves for each section. It sounds much more alive.

Rossy said:
can anyone give me a suggestion on how to maintain a somewhat even modulation while recording with the mod wheel of is it just a matter of practice?
Click to expand...

This question hasn't been answered as far as I can see. It's important that you have a clear idea about the dynamics in your piece. And not just the macro dynamics like: it's piano for the first 12 bars, then forte for four, then piano again for another twelve. No, you need to think in musical phrases. Then it will get much clearer and easier to perform cc curves that are matching musically. For example, your piece might start in piano, with a slight crescendo for the first two bars, and then a diminuendo on the ending of the phrase in bar four. If you know this before recording your instruments, the cc curves for the different sections will come out similar and will need only small adjustments after recording.

Years back I have posted a comparison between using the same cc1 data for all strings sections, vs recording individual cc1 data for each section:

Part writing or the importance of not being lazy – complete with fancy pictures and sound

Have you ever heard of some arcane device called ‘part writing’? Ever wondered if it could help you improve your writing? If the answer to the second question is no then congratulations. You can save yourself the hassle of reading through this and just have a quick glance at the fancy pictures...
vi-control.net vi-control.net

It's not a one on one comparison because the ensemble version doesn't have proper part-writing. But it gives an idea of the differences it can make.
 
Casiquire said:
Context is everything and it comes down to your taste, but I do have some generalizations for myself. If the strings are basically being used as pads in the background, I might copy-paste. If the lines are very independent though, the dynamics should be too. If the cellos and bass are holding down the rhythm in octaves, violas are doing a rhythm/harmony thing, and violins are playing the melody in octaves, I'd copy paste my cello and bass line, and I'd copy paste the violin line--not just the CCs but the notes and timing as well. This helps it feel like the players are working together. The violas are doing their own thing, so they get their own dynamics. If it's just polyphonic writing, the writing itself demands independent dynamics and it would sound very odd if the dynamics were shared across parts

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
That's a great way of looking at it.
 
muk said:
+1 to what everybody wrote about creating different cc1 curves for each section. It sounds much more alive.



This question hasn't been answered as far as I can see. It's important that you have a clear idea about the dynamics in your piece. And not just the macro dynamics like: it's piano for the first 12 bars, then forte for four, then piano again for another twelve. No, you need to think in musical phrases. Then it will get much clearer and easier to perform cc curves that are matching musically. For example, your piece might start in piano, with a slight crescendo for the first two bars, and then a diminuendo on the ending of the phrase in bar four. If you know this before recording your instruments, the cc curves for the different sections will come out similar and will need only small adjustments after recording.

Years back I have posted a comparison between using the same cc1 data for all strings sections, vs recording individual cc1 data for each section:

Part writing or the importance of not being lazy – complete with fancy pictures and sound

Have you ever heard of some arcane device called ‘part writing’? Ever wondered if it could help you improve your writing? If the answer to the second question is no then congratulations. You can save yourself the hassle of reading through this and just have a quick glance at the fancy pictures...
vi-control.net vi-control.net

It's not a one on one comparison because the ensemble version doesn't have proper part-writing. But it gives an idea of the differences it can make.
Click to expand...
That's a good point but I find, which has a lot to do with my inexperience, that when I start to record the celli and basses, I seem to over modulate them as I struggle to hear them and then it comes out a big mush of low end. I am still trying to learn how to write parts that not only do the piece justice but also that moves me which is easier said than done.
 
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I do, then I either some of the nodes (if drawn in), or use the pencil. It's a good balance between adding life to a cue, while trying to make a good use of your time...
 
I've recently started to think of drawing the more static things instead of performing them. Don't know about you guys but my slow fades sound like if grandpa's handwriting had a sound compared to a smooth digital diminishing curve.

And don't get me started on overexaggerating with the cresCENDOS. If I'd get money every time I hit 127 already at the beginning of the last second already, I'd be a rich man.
 
Rossy said:
That's a good point but I find, which has a lot to do with my inexperience, that when I start to record the celli and basses, I seem to over modulate them as I struggle to hear them and then it comes out a big mush of low end. I am still trying to learn how to write parts that not only do the piece justice but also that moves me which is easier said than done.
Click to expand...
I used to raise the gain of the section before recording it and lower the gain after it's done - so that I hear the part well enough to not make it too loud at the end. However, maybe my hearing became better and more detailed with experience so now I don't do that any more. Though I often do this - if the part is not sounding right I'm muting some sections, maybe 1, maybe 2 and record without hearing them - often it helps, but sometimes it's better when I hear all the parts playing while recording - so I try either way untill I like what I hear.
 
Petrucci said:
I used to raise the gain of the section before recording it and lower the gain after it's done - so that I hear the part well enough to not make it too loud at the end. However, maybe my hearing became better and more detailed with experience so now I don't do that any more. Though I often do this - if the part is not sounding right I'm muting some sections, maybe 1, maybe 2 and record without hearing them - often it helps, but sometimes it's better when I hear all the parts playing while recording - so I try either way untill I like what I hear.
Click to expand...
I live by this! I find tricks like that helpful so I appreciate you bringing it up. Maybe it's because of my lack of experience but I also like to dial things back/tighten things up about fifteen percent. So I'll get an EQ setting that sounds good, then bring it back just a tiny bit. Recording midi slightly slower then bringing it back to tempo is a good one too, especially for tricky parts
 
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