A book on correct fingering of piano scales
- Thread starter rAC
- Start date
Inherently
Active Member
John Thompson's Modern Course for the Piano, start with the First Grade, do what is recommended there, to the best of your ability.
dreamliner
Señor Member
OP
OP
rAC
Active Member
@dreamliner A VERY BIG Thank you that is exactly what I was looking for. And the earlier exercises look like they will be helpful too. By way of explanation, I learnt the organ as a teenager - but not for long enough to get any theory. I know most chords as I was taught to play chords in my left hand from the chord symbols in sheet music but scales weren’t part of my learning.
OP
OP
rAC
Active Member
@dreamliner ’s post has paid benefits already: I was starting B flat scale with little finger.
Quasar
Senior Member
I agree. Proper fingering is "proper" for a reason, so we should take the advice seriously. But not all arms and hands are the same, and it's good to realize that the recommended fingering is a only a guide, and you should always feel free to deviate from the standard if you have a good reason to do so. This is true for scales as well as for music you might learn from reading sheet music (the recommended fingering of which can vary from one published version to another anyway).
I have the very same book and 100% agree that it's excellent.I personally really like this one.
youngpokie
Senior Member
It's important to distinguish between fingering as it's used in scales, etudes, etc and fingering set up for performance.
The first is foundational to develop tone, fluency, wrist motion and equalize as much as possible the force of individual fingers. For instance, (1) expressive playing at (2) fast tempo and (3) piano-pianissimo dynamic and (4) small/chromatic intervals will instantly reveal all kinds of problems. Thumbs will stick out, pinky will get drowned out, wrists feel rigid and phrasing most likely be a mess.
For training specifically, I would strongly recommend following a system as it was designed and sticking to its fingerings, because each exercise group is developing some particular aspect of playing and not the memorization of finger sequence per se. For example, some systems teach 6 different types of fingerings just in chromatic scales (eg two finger combinations such as 1-2, 1-2 for an almost glissando-style legato tone or 3-4-5, 3-4, 3-4 sequence for weak fingers).
In this sense, fingering for the purpose of training can be compared to isolating and focusing on e.g. individual leg muscles at the gym using machines, so precision and repetition is key.
When it comes to artistic performance, fingering is designed for the given piece based on the context and player's hands in order to achieve the most expressive possible performance. For instance, replacing the scale-like 5-finger approach in favor of more thumbing and extra wide wrist motion will help achieve a much more expressive forte-fortissimo in very fast passages. Chopin, Rachmaninov and Medtner have written out extremely detailed fingerings for this reason and they are completely different from the mindset needed for training.
The first is foundational to develop tone, fluency, wrist motion and equalize as much as possible the force of individual fingers. For instance, (1) expressive playing at (2) fast tempo and (3) piano-pianissimo dynamic and (4) small/chromatic intervals will instantly reveal all kinds of problems. Thumbs will stick out, pinky will get drowned out, wrists feel rigid and phrasing most likely be a mess.
For training specifically, I would strongly recommend following a system as it was designed and sticking to its fingerings, because each exercise group is developing some particular aspect of playing and not the memorization of finger sequence per se. For example, some systems teach 6 different types of fingerings just in chromatic scales (eg two finger combinations such as 1-2, 1-2 for an almost glissando-style legato tone or 3-4-5, 3-4, 3-4 sequence for weak fingers).
In this sense, fingering for the purpose of training can be compared to isolating and focusing on e.g. individual leg muscles at the gym using machines, so precision and repetition is key.
When it comes to artistic performance, fingering is designed for the given piece based on the context and player's hands in order to achieve the most expressive possible performance. For instance, replacing the scale-like 5-finger approach in favor of more thumbing and extra wide wrist motion will help achieve a much more expressive forte-fortissimo in very fast passages. Chopin, Rachmaninov and Medtner have written out extremely detailed fingerings for this reason and they are completely different from the mindset needed for training.
Double Helix
[no data]
OP
OP
rAC
Active Member
@youngpokie - yes it’s a solid foundation that I’m looking to build, and the Hanson pdf Dreamliner posted seems to be ideal for what I am after.
I'm not sure that's good advice for someone starting on their own. Some fingerings might feel awkward when starting because our fingers are not stretched and trained at all, but as we practice those fingerings, they start to feel natural. When I say that, I'm remembering when I started learning 7th chords arpeggios. The fingering seemed very strange and difficult at first, but I sticked to it and now I realized I can do the arpeggio very quickly and fluently that way. If I had started with my "own" fingering, I'd probably be less effective at best.
Once we have acquired the most common fingering techniques, yes I agree with you, we can start developing our own strategies for different situations. A "more confortable" way is not always the best path to take when we have untrained fingers and no teachers next to us to warn us.
If I can give you a piece of advice, also pay much attention to how your fingers get contracted. If your pinkie is going up straight, that's something you'd want to pay attention to and progressively get rid of. That's normal at the beginning, but you need to think about it and relax your hands and fingers to get the right habits. Stop your exercise, relax, and restart. Having a completely relaxed hand is the only way to play very fast and complex pieces if you want to reach that level one day. If you keep tension, there will come a time you'll be blocked and you'll need to practice harder to get rid of that tension to move on. Most of the time when you can't play a part smoothly, first check if one or several of your fingers are not contracted and causing the problem. Getting rid of tension will also preserve your hands against tendinitis.
Last edited:
Standard fingering for all scales is founded upon one, extremely straightforward and memorizable basic rule, namely "use long fingers (2, 3, 4) whenever short (i.e. black) keys are to be struck, and use short fingers (1, 5) only on long (i.e., whiite) keys. The sequence of white and black keys and their distribution on the keyboard is directly inferrable from the key signature for each scale, allowing its fingering to be discovered by applying the above rule. (The only fingering-sequences that are not inevitably dictated by the rule are the all-white scales of C major and descending melodic A minor.) The rule is equally applicable, too, for working out fingerings for chromatic scales, for which a variety of feasible alternative fingerings can be obtained.
I'd strenuosly advise learning scale fingerings through applying this rule, since it will enable you to quickly form an intellectuall grasp of the general basis of fingering as the outcome of your personal effort, whereas using printed scales with ready-provided fingering offers no more than spoon-feeding that does not necessarily lead to discovering the fundamental rule-in-common. Proceeding in this way will save you a huge amount of time and muddle overall and leave you with an indelible knowledge of scale-fingering.
I'd strenuosly advise learning scale fingerings through applying this rule, since it will enable you to quickly form an intellectuall grasp of the general basis of fingering as the outcome of your personal effort, whereas using printed scales with ready-provided fingering offers no more than spoon-feeding that does not necessarily lead to discovering the fundamental rule-in-common. Proceeding in this way will save you a huge amount of time and muddle overall and leave you with an indelible knowledge of scale-fingering.
Last edited:
wing
Active Member
I've used Macfarren's Scale and Arpeggio Manual. An old school classic but the fingerings are solid. You could likely find it for free on IMSLP.org.
I like having a good scale/arp manual under my piano bench in case I want to review some fingering ideas, and it's good for when you're getting started. But the thing I learned over the years is that fingerings are quite personal and should be adapted to an individual's hands and whatever feels most natural. Basically there's no hard and fast fingerings that works for everyone, so it's best to experiment with what works best for you. You'll find as you advance that you may have to alter and adapt fingerings to specific pieces or contexts - where one fingering generally works, sometimes for a particular passage you'll need to finger it differently. Not to confuse you, just saying that remaining adaptable with fingerings is ultimately ideal, rather than being locked into only one way.
I like having a good scale/arp manual under my piano bench in case I want to review some fingering ideas, and it's good for when you're getting started. But the thing I learned over the years is that fingerings are quite personal and should be adapted to an individual's hands and whatever feels most natural. Basically there's no hard and fast fingerings that works for everyone, so it's best to experiment with what works best for you. You'll find as you advance that you may have to alter and adapt fingerings to specific pieces or contexts - where one fingering generally works, sometimes for a particular passage you'll need to finger it differently. Not to confuse you, just saying that remaining adaptable with fingerings is ultimately ideal, rather than being locked into only one way.
Wensleydale
Active Member
I used this when I was seriously trying to learn the piano some years ago. It's a slightly unconventional approach (I can't remember in what respects exactly) but it made sense to me at the time. Penelope Roskell is a reputable teacher and she has since written a number of other books. I eventually gave up the piano, but it wasn't her fault!
bryla
Orchestrator
If you know the sequence for C major (123 1234 1/5) you know the basis of many scales. There are two simple rules in addition:
- The thumb never takes a black key
- When going outwards (up with right; down with left), the thumb takes the first white key after a black key.
With these two rules in mind, you will never need a book on this. For some scales you will need to reverse engineer, but you'll learn it better IMO.
Let's take 2 examples:
F major:
- Start with thumb on F (as if we were starting the C-major sequence)
- After 3 notes you can't cross with the thumb (it's both physically.... challenging, and it violates the first rule). Instead proceed with 4th finger.
- After the last black key (the only one in this case) use the thumb for C and proceed to end with the fourth finger on F (or cross with the thumb for an additional octave)
Db major:
With this we can't start from Db to figure out the fingering. Instead we look for the first white key, F.
Now we have the fingering from F and the next 3 keys that are black.
F Gb Ab Bb = 1234
The first white key after the Bb is C, so we know we need the thumb for C and therefore 2 on Db.
Now we are ready to start from the beginning with second finger on Db, third finger on Eb and crossing with the thumb on F.
I know this reads complicated, but go through it with the piano and see how easy it is to figure out.
Remember when figuring out the left hand we are looking for the first white key down from the last black (going outwards).
Inherently
Active Member
After more than twelve years of self-directed study (Hanon) I am working with a private teacher who is helping me fill in some remaining gaps (that's an understatement). The goals have never extended beyond a daily visit with the instrument and an acceptable level of mental clarity. In a typical year I've missed practice maybe ten times.
Sitting with an accomplished pianist and doing the things they tell me, without somehow bursting into flames, was not something I was willing to consider prior to this year (2023). So carry on!
If, by any chance, you notice yourself skipping practice, just check those daily goals and make sure they're steady and comfortable.
How much mirage-making rests in rigor?
Sitting with an accomplished pianist and doing the things they tell me, without somehow bursting into flames, was not something I was willing to consider prior to this year (2023). So carry on!
If, by any chance, you notice yourself skipping practice, just check those daily goals and make sure they're steady and comfortable.
How much mirage-making rests in rigor?
