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Changes to Commercial Announcements

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
As you may know, there’s been a long-standing rule on the forum that you're supposed to buy advertising if you’re going to post Commercial Announcements. A number of developers have been ignoring this rule. It’s annoying (especially when it’s me who’s not getting paid! :grin: ) but I don’t want to play policeman on this. It’s not fun. Still, the rule is there and it’s not fair that some people are paying in good faith and others are not.

The obvious solution is to start deleting all the Commercial Announcements posts from non-advertisers. After all, them’s the rules, and why should some companies benefit from what other companies (and me!) pay for? But … I'm reminded of the Northern Sounds debacle years ago, and I definitely don’t want to go down that road.

More importantly, deleting announcements from non-advertisers would hurt the forum, since most people here want to know when EastWest or CineSamples or 8dio has a new release, whether they advertise or not. Not to sound like a martyr, but I bought the forum to make sure it stayed a cool place, not to get rich. So I can't delete half (yes, half!) the Commercial Announcements.

In their defense, I suspect that since “support the forum” now means, “put money into Mike’s pocket,” there’s less of a charity situation than there used to be. (Maybe I should lose the Corvette in the avatar?) I must admit, I’d probably feel the same way. I think the new reality of VI-Control is that companies are going to buy ads only if it makes business sense, rather than for altruistic reasons. So with all that, I’ve decided:

Big change #1 - There will no longer be a requirement to buy ads before posting Commercial Announcements. Whether you buy ads or not, you can now post Commercial Announcements to your heart’s content.

Now, I know what you’re thinking: “But Mike! How are you going to buy more Corvettes if everybody just posts free Commercial Announcements and stops advertising?” *

By golly, you’re right! Even though VIC ads are cheaper by far than any of the other music forums, plus they deliver to a more focused (and bigger spending!) audience than anywhere else, which makes them an incredible value that any forward-thinking company will obviously want to take advantage of, there are still going to be those companies who decide they just want to post free announcements instead. Plus they get even more free publicity when I mention them in the weekly newsletter. (Half the companies I mention there don’t advertise.) Well, that brings us to:

Big change #2 - We now have a second Commercial Announcements “Tier 2” section, which is for non-advertisers. This new section works like the main Commercial Announcements section. It will be visible to members and will appear in their Latest Posts feed, just like normal. If you're a member here, you probably won’t notice a difference. You'll see announcements from both advertisers and non-advertisers, just like before.

However, guests (non-members) will not see this section, and for guests (non-members), these "Tier 2" posts do not appear in the Latest Posts feed.

Of course, the main "Original Recipe" Commercial Announcements section will be seen by both members and guests.

I think this will be pretty unnoticeable to most members. All commercial announcements, paid or not, will still show up, including in the Latest Posts feed. You won’t see a difference there. (Unless you’re not a member. Why the heck would anyone not be a member???)

If you’re a company, this will mean fewer eyeballs on your announcements, since guests comprise about 60% of the forum visits.

* For the record, this forum makes far less money than what you might think, and less than half of what was estimated in the drama thread back in June. Ain’t nobody gonna buy collector cars with the income from it. Heck, it will be years before I even recoup what I paid for it.
 
Love this... but I may change my mind if I ever produce a library, lol!

Instead of Tier 1 & 2, I might suggest Gold & Silver... a bit more demeaning, imho. Or you could go B's to the walls, and hit 'em with Gold & Pot metal sections... this really gets the message across.
 
Not that I'm going to complain or anything, but I'm not using Latest posts, so for me it means one additional forum to monitor. :)
Admittedly, that is a downside. In fact, it's now two additional forums, because I did the same thing for the Deals, Deals, Deals forum.

If it's any consolation, though, unless you log in every day, you'd need to scan more than one page to see all the announcements anyway. In other words, the number of page clicks shouldn't be much higher.

Plus, in theory, as some of the larger companies realize "Golly, maybe it's worth $39/month to post in the main section," then we should get to a point where the main CA section is the more major announcements, while Tier 2 is the soundpacks and stuff.
 
Understandable change from your side.

Quick question:
Does the product itself need to be advertised, or does it "suffice" if the company making the announcement has advertisement running? For example if a company has advertising running for a big flagship product, but also releases a couple of smaller products, would that mean only the flagship product would be allowed in Tier 1?
 
When is Tier 3/4 coming ? I remember reading we had enough sub forums, but what do I know.

Admittedly, that is a downside. In fact, it's now two additional forums, because I did the same thing for the Deals, Deals, Deals forum.

If it's any consolation, though, unless you log in every day, you'd need to scan more than one page to see all the announcements anyway. In other words, the number of page clicks shouldn't be much higher.

Plus, in theory, as some of the larger companies realize "Golly, maybe it's worth $39/month to post in the main section," then we should get to a point where the main CA section is the more major announcements, while Tier 2 is the soundpacks and stuff.


I might check it once a day, but not religiously as some seem to.
 
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Not a response to the changes per se, but I've had a lingering thought about commercial announcements for a little while, and this seems as good a time as any to bring it up.

Personally, I think the majority of posts that violate the spirit of the 'Commercial Announcement Free Zone' are accidental. It isn't a huge effort to check by scrolling to the top of the page to see which section the thread is in, but you have to remember TO check, if that makes sense. I myself would find handy a little reminder above the window to type the post in, something to the effect of "Remember: this post is in the commercial announcement...blah blah." Or, color coding on the thread so there's a kind of warning as you're getting into the thread.

Couldn't hurt, right?
 
I think it is a site wide issue, there are some head scratches. I come to the point where I do not even mention/report most that should be moved. If your that ignorant or lazy you should live with it :cool:

Not a response to the changes per se, but I've had a lingering thought about commercial announcements for a little while, and this seems as good a time as any to bring it up.

Personally, I think the majority of posts that violate the spirit of the 'Commercial Announcement Free Zone' are accidental. It isn't a huge effort to check by scrolling to the top of the page to see which section the thread is in, but you have to remember TO check, if that makes sense. I myself would find handy a little reminder above the window to type the post in, something to the effect of "Remember: this post is in the commercial announcement...blah blah." Or, color coding on the thread so there's a kind of warning as you're getting into the thread.

Couldn't hurt, right?
 
To be fair, you should ask all the "Lobying Guys" to clearly announce they are... Because I'm really tired of some people here that spend their time trying to convince us that the lib X or Y is the best and not honestly telling us they have a deal... I have a recent example with a new big lib of Strings, every 2 posts this guy was posting, answering etc... Mike you prove us again, you're are the best thing that could arrive to our/my FAVORITE Forum... Thanks and Merry Christmas.
 
You can usually spot them, like a bad suit on a used car salesman, but I agree. The shameful thing is if you look at there post history its nothing but schilling and no other positive input to the community.

Use the ignore feature it works.

To be fair, you should ask all the "Lobying Guys" to clearly announce they are... Because I'm really tired of some people here that spend their time trying to convince us that the lib X or Y is the best and not honestly telling us they have a deal... I have a recent example with a new big lib of Strings, every 2 posts this guy was posting, answering etc... Mike you prove us again, you're are the best thing that could arrive to our/my FAVORITE Forum... Thanks and Merry Christmas.
 
I could have sworn I remember recently reading an official post where the rule was one commercial announcement every six months if you're not a paying advertiser. Was that rule deprecated? I'd usually announce two sales during the year, and I used to make a small donation (roughly 10% of the sales it generated) in appreciation for the service when that option was available.
You would have sworn correctly. :grin:

That was becoming a chore, because a number of companies were gaming it in various ways, plus getting into tedious discussions. It was becoming a major PIA because I was spending more time on it than it's worth. I support the philosophy of letting smaller companies post, but you'd be amazed at how many developers with catalogs bigger than mine still consider themselves "small companies." (Obviously that isn't directed at you.)

So by ending that, and having very cut and dried rules, I'm hoping to have less work. Honestly, that's my main goal right now. Less work. Most aspects of running the forum have been fun, but dealing with advertiser related issues ... that's probably 8 to 10 hours a week. So I'm making this, as well as some other changes.

There are a couple exceptions, like N, which I find amusing. And in your case, I like polka, so what the heck. ;)
 
Understandable change from your side.

Quick question:
Does the product itself need to be advertised, or does it "suffice" if the company making the announcement has advertisement running? For example if a company has advertising running for a big flagship product, but also releases a couple of smaller products, would that mean only the flagship product would be allowed in Tier 1?
Nah, I'm not that harsh. :grin: If you're advertising, all your stuff would be allowed in Tier 1, whether it's the subject of an ad or not.
 
Not a response to the changes per se, but I've had a lingering thought about commercial announcements for a little while, and this seems as good a time as any to bring it up.

Personally, I think the majority of posts that violate the spirit of the 'Commercial Announcement Free Zone' are accidental. It isn't a huge effort to check by scrolling to the top of the page to see which section the thread is in, but you have to remember TO check, if that makes sense. I myself would find handy a little reminder above the window to type the post in, something to the effect of "Remember: this post is in the commercial announcement...blah blah." Or, color coding on the thread so there's a kind of warning as you're getting into the thread.

Couldn't hurt, right?
I'm not sure of that's possible. I kinda think not.

Either way, though, I don't think there's been much problem. Maybe I'm wrong, but we get very few reports of problem posters in CA threads.
 
To be fair, you should ask all the "Lobying Guys" to clearly announce they are... Because I'm really tired of some people here that spend their time trying to convince us that the lib X or Y is the best and not honestly telling us they have a deal... I have a recent example with a new big lib of Strings, every 2 posts this guy was posting, answering etc... Mike you prove us again, you're are the best thing that could arrive to our/my FAVORITE Forum... Thanks and Merry Christmas.
I agree with you on this, but I'm not sure yet how to handle it. Rules would be really tough to write, because some "affiliates" are actually helpful with their posts, so I don't want to throw out any babies with the bathwater. Also, the forum software is not capable of a lot of "This guy is an affiliate!" flagging or anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely with you on this, and I've been trying to figure out how to handle it. It's a challenge, though.
 
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