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Spitfire 'Spin to Win' is a great reminder why online gambling is for morons.

Robert_G

Robert_G

The End is Near
Yes, I realize that Spitfire 'Spin to Win' is free, but there is a lot of gambling online like these types of games that are not free.
I'm pretty sure that Spitfire 'Spin to Win' is at least semi fixed....if not completely fixed, but at the end of the day, it is not like traditional gambling where there is at least a physical wheel, or physical people playing cards next to you, or a physical rolling of the dice.

As for me, I believe that all gambling should be illegal, but that is just my opinion. However....online gambling should be completely outlawed.
A person has no idea how the online machines are programmed. It is way too easy to let someone win a 'small' amount the first few rounds....then get them hooked thinking that the odds are actually good. There is no way to prove that the online game you are playing is rigged in favor for you to get hooked and then lose.

At least real physical gambling can somewhat be monitored for fairness.

Thoughts?
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Spitfire actually says on their website exactly how it works if you read the fine print. Every 2 hours, there's 1 winner, chosen by being the person who spins the wheel closest to a random point in time. That means the time when you spin it is what determines whether you win or not.

On the one hand, their interface is extremely misleading, because they depict the wheel as having an equal amount of winning areas as losing areas, making you think there's a 50% chance of winning.

But on the other hand, it's free to play. You're really not gambling anything. So I think it's a good thing overall.

Robert_G said:
As for me, I believe that all gambling should be illegal, but that is just my opinion. However....online gambling should be completely outlawed.
A person has no idea how the online machines are programmed. It is way too easy to let someone win a 'small' amount the first few rounds....then get them hooked thinking that the odds are actually good. There is no way to prove that you the online game you are playing is rigged in favor for you to get hooked and then lose.
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No, there's plenty of ways to verify the fairness of an online game. And more importantly, you might be surprised how skilled cheaters in real life can convincingly hide their actions in real life. Check out this video for an example of what I'm talking about. The real reason you shouldn't gamble is simply because as time goes on, you're more and more likely to lose money.

Since the Spitfire thing is free, you're not losing anything except for a few seconds of your time. I think that's better than buying a lottery ticket. At least they're not doing some annoying things like making you like their posts on social media.
 
QuiteAlright said:
Since the Spitfire thing is free, you're not losing anything except for a few seconds of your time. I think that's better than buying a lottery ticket. At least they're not doing some annoying things like making you like their posts on social media.
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It's cheaper than buying a lottery ticket, but less fair - you have no idea when spinning the wheel if someone has already 'won' for that time period, and thus you have zero chance.
 
Robert_G said:
Thoughts?
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Yes, stop thinking about it. Calling it "gambling" is quite a stretch as you're literally not gambling anything other than five seconds of your time once per day for a week.

My opinion is that people are spending way too much time trying to figure out the algorithm, looking way too far into the colors scheme, etc. Heck, people seem to believe there's a 50% chance they'll win for some reason. Or the fix is in (against THEM). Has the world really gone this mad?

Damn, now I've wasted five seconds of MY time.
 
Beyond4A said:
Heck, people seem to believe there's a 50% chance they'll win for some reason.
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Because the wheel, that's spinning, is divided into two equal groups of segments.. win and lose.

It may be the case that some people never expect the odds to be accurately reflected, but the illustration of the wheel implies a 50% chance, assuming it's not rigged.
 
There's zero reason for online gambling to cheat you, all they want is your business. The odds take care of the rest. To rig it would be asinine and literally the definition of shooting the golden goose.

Another way they get you is to make it very very easy to deposit money (with lots of signing bonuses) and very difficult to withdraw. But it is possible, I've won and withdrawn a decent amount. Again, no reason to rig it, it's a cash cow.

There are a couple differences with online gambling, the main one being the deck is not predetermined/shuffled like it is in real life. If it were pre-determined, presumably someone would be able to hack the programming and figure out what the cards are. So the deck is always random, minus the cards already dealt. This is one of the most misunderstood aspects of playing online, for example in poker (which is not by definition gambling, it's a game of skill), if you correctly fold 83 off-suit and the flop comes 883 and you say "shit I folded the nuts" or "dang why didn't I stay in"... had you stayed in the flop would have (almost certainly) been something completely different.

Another form of online gambling that's gained a lot of traction in the past couple years is you interact via video cameras with a live dealer. For example in roulette you have an actual dealer in a room spinning the wheel and dropping the ball, but you're obviously placing your bets via the online account. You know it's not prerecorded video because you can interact with the dealer via text chat, though there will be a lot of other people all doing the same. Sure they could rig the roulette wheel just like you could rig the wheel in real life, but why would they do that... it's not worth losing the business. Statistics don't lie, it's way too easy to see if 0 or 00 are popping up an improbable amount of time.

The spitfire thing, whatever.. it's not gambling if you're not putting up any $$.
 
Beyond4A said:
Yes, stop thinking about it. Calling it "gambling" is quite a stretch as you're literally not gambling anything other than five seconds of your time once per day for a week.
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I didn't actually call the Spitfire thingy gambling if you read my post.
 
mobiuscog said:
It's cheaper than buying a lottery ticket, but less fair - you have no idea when spinning the wheel if someone has already 'won' for that time period, and thus you have zero chance.
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This.....exactly....
But as I said...the Spitfire thing isn't gambling....but what you said here is just another reason why I don't like Spitfire as a company. The fact that the time period may already be eliminated by the time I get on is just lame. That's not how you do a spin to win.
 
QuiteAlright said:
Spitfire actually says on their website exactly how it works if you read the fine print. Every 2 hours, there's 1 winner, chosen by being the person who spins the wheel closest to a random point in time. That means the time when you spin it is what determines whether you win or not.
Click to expand...
How does the game know who is the closest, if the win is determined at the time of the click to spin? If the time of the win is 12:01:52, someone spins the wheel at 12:01:47, it awards the win but someone spins the wheel at 12:01:53 which is closer? Or does the wheel spin as long what the time between the spin and the win is plus another same amount of time to make sure someone spinning after the win time does not hit closer?
 
AceAudioHQ said:
How does the game know who is the closest, if the win is determined at the time of the click to spin? If the time of the win is 12:01:52, someone spins the wheel at 12:01:47, it awards the win but someone spins the wheel at 12:01:53 which is closer? Or does the wheel spin as long what the time between the spin and the win is plus another same amount of time to make sure someone spinning after the win time does not hit closer?
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Exactly. What if someone spins at 11:43 and the next person doesn't spin till 12:56? Wasn't the 11:43 person the closest in that case? How would that work?
 
AceAudioHQ said:
How does the game know who is the closest, if the win is determined at the time of the click to spin? If the time of the win is 12:01:52, someone spins the wheel at 12:01:47, it awards the win but someone spins the wheel at 12:01:53 which is closer? Or does the wheel spin as long what the time between the spin and the win is plus another same amount of time to make sure someone spinning after the win time does not hit closer?
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I opened a support ticket to Spitfire about this. I'll keep everyone posted.
 
maybe they have it figured out and it's legit but I don't see an explanation to it. What if there are so few spinners close to the winning time that the closest is 5 minutes away from the winning time, does the wheel spin 10 minutes until it's resolved that nobody could get any closer? or is it only after that specific win time when they start checking who is the closest to that time, and people who span before it can't actually win even though they might be closer?
 
AceAudioHQ said:
How does the game know who is the closest, if the win is determined at the time of the click to spin? If the time of the win is 12:01:52, someone spins the wheel at 12:01:47, it awards the win but someone spins the wheel at 12:01:53 which is closer? Or does the wheel spin as long what the time between the spin and the win is plus another same amount of time to make sure someone spinning after the win time does not hit closer?
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davidson said:
Exactly. What if someone spins at 11:43 and the next person doesn't spin till 12:56? Wasn't the 11:43 person the closest in that case? How would that work?
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AceAudioHQ said:
maybe they have it figured out and it's legit but I don't see an explanation to it. What if there are so few spinners close to the winning time that the closest is 5 minutes away from the winning time, does the wheel spin 10 minutes until it's resolved that nobody could get any closer? or is it only after that specific win time when they start checking who is the closest to that time, and people who span before it can't actually win even though they might be closer?
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Beyond4A said:
I opened a support ticket to Spitfire about this. I'll keep everyone posted.
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Whether these ONLINE games are gambling or free......the 'how it actually works' is so stupid here...as with many online games (gambling or free) You could never be this confusing if this were an actual physical game. The logistics won't allow for it.
But online.....lol......you program all sorts of lunacy....ie...Spitfire 'Spin to Win'.
 
QuiteAlright said:
But on the other hand, it's free to play. You're really not gambling anything. So I think it's a good thing overall.
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Well, there gain is of course not that you have to spend money on your gambling addiction! The reason they use this is that in your head Spitfire products get associated with the dopamine rush of gambling. Nobody should think any of these companies do anything for the sheer reason of wanting to "do good for a community" as they sometimes claim. It is all by the book of marketing and there are proven concepts of how to draw people in spending money. The trick is always to make it look all quite harmless, fun and nice.
 
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arafaratanran said:
The reason they use this is of that in your head Spitfire products get associated with the dopamine rush of gamblin
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Yeah, emotions are not free. They always have a mental impact. The more I learn to focus each day on writing music and keeping distractions away the more I realize how much of a hold phones and all the online crap have on us.

A phone doesn't even need to be in the room to be a distraction. It is just there in the back of your mind distracting your focus, that morning email could fuck up your day or some new make you feel anxiety for stuff happening a world away and out of your control.

Same with this sort of marketing techniques, look at how much of an emotional impact it had that people spent days trying to understand the algorithm, that is not free.

I think the marketing rationale behind the technique is making sure you revisit the website every day. I bet there are studies about how much that does increase the chances of you falling for one the BF sales every time you revisit the site.

I'm not accusing Spitfire of anything, though, I'm a happy customer. This sort of techniques are marketing 101. I just wish they weren't.
 
arafaratanran said:
Well, there gain is of course not that you have to spend money on your gabling addiction! The reason they use this is of that in your head Spitfire products get associated with the dopamine rush of gambling.
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It's not that complicated. It gets you to come to their website every day, and people think "while I'm already here, I might as well take another look at the deals".
 
QuiteAlright said:
It's not that complicated. It gets you to come to their website every day, and people think "while I'm already here, I might as well take another look at the deals".
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That too, but I promise you: any honest person who works in marketing will tell you there is more to it. One of the top reasons why marketing works so well is that most people completely underestimate the influence it has on them … ;)
 
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