Best publishing rights admin to collect Performance Royalties?

You seem to be confusing a few things here. If a library published your tracks almost certainly they own the publishing rights, not you. I assume you mean the writers share of the royalties that you want to collect. The publisher's share of these royalties go to the publisher, who, in your case, seems to be a library.

Tunecore, CdBaby, Distrokid etc. are platforms to sell your music on. They do not collect royalties.

What I think you want to investigate are performing rights organizations (PROs). These are societies that collect royalties for and distribute them to composers and publishers. There are many such organizations, and many of them collect royalties worldwide.

muk said:

You seem to be confusing a few things here. If a library published your tracks almost certainly they own the publishing rights, not you. I assume you mean the writers share of the royalties that you want to collect. The publisher's share of these royalties go to the publisher, who, in your case, seems to be a library.

Tunecore, CdBaby, Distrokid etc. are platforms to sell your music on. They do not collect royalties.

What I think you want to investigate are performing rights organizations (PROs). These are societies that collect royalties for and distribute them to composers and publishers. There are many such organizations, and many of them collect royalties worldwide.

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No, I think you didn't read my post well

I work with a couple of music libraries, with these I have agreements which let me retain my Publishing Rights (100%). They only take a percentage on licenses sold to their customers (obviously).

I own my own Publisher account at SESAC, through which I collect on my behalf Public Performance Royalties.

I already collect them with the help of a sub publisher who only covers a couple of countries.
That's why now I'm investigating to find a company who collects the royalties worldwide to all PROs and brings the uncollected $$ to me.

PROs are simply not enough, they only collect what you can report to them with the help of BMAT, Tunesat etc...

What I need is the middleman company who interacts with ALL PROs and knocks at their door showing them BMAT or similar reports to collect all the uncollected royalties.

muk said:

Tunecore, CdBaby, Distrokid etc. are platforms to sell your music on. They do not collect royalties.

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That's not true. They collect mechanical royalties, streams etc... But they do not mention public performance royalties, which is what I am interested in.

GrapeBotherhood said:

I work with a couple of music libraries, with these I have agreements which let me retain my Publishing Rights (100%)

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Looks like you got the deal of the century, first time I've heard of that. You mention that you're interested in collecting public performance royalties, which is the portion collected by your PRO....also called the "writers share", don't confuse this with publishing rights (completely different).

Jeremy Spencer said:

Looks like you got the deal of the century, first time I've heard of that. You mention that you're interested in collecting public performance royalties, which is the portion collected by your PRO....also called the "writers share", don't confuse this with publishing rights (completely different).

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Actually, when you collect public performances, you can collect both Writer and Publisher's share.
That's why I have both an account as Writer and another as Publisher at SESAC.

Many times you don't own a vanity Publisher account because you think you don't need it. In fact most of the time your music is published by a company which retains all or part of your Publisher share.

But if you Publish your own music, then license to a company the right to license your music (often non-exclusively in this case) then you still own the Publisher share, unless you gave it up in the agreement.

In fact, depending on these agreements, for some of my music I only collect writer's share, but for other works I both own and control publisher+writer's shares.

And that's why I am looking for a company to help me collect all of my publisher/writer shares!

GrapeBotherhood said:

which is the best publisher rights admin/sub publisher company out there to specifically collect TV Public Performance Royalties.

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But your original post is confusing, as public performance royalties are not publishing royalties. My PRO (SOCAN) collects public performance royalties internationally, which is the writer’s share.

Hi there, at least for my experience, as an example that could be useful to you in this case, If a PRO doesn’t have the information of your music in their database, the income goes to a Work Pending Identify “bag” and If in 5 years no one claim it, then the Society keeps the income.

That’s how it works in SGAE in Spain for both, Mechanicals and Performace Rights and I understand would be similar in the rest of territories.

So even If you’re a member of any other society in a different country, unless you had a Sub-Publisher in the territory, you’re not going to see any money.

I understand that’s why he is asking for a Publisher that can be represented in as many countries as possible and could track the registrations and the income.

I invite you to look for your music at the SACEM, GEMA or SGAE repertoires which are open to anyone (in PRS, SPA and others you need to be a member to look at their repertoire) and you’ll see your music is not in there.

In a few cases we have received some registrations from other PROs directly to SGAE but normally doesn’t have the correct information (wrong shares mostly)

So that my experience and hope that can be useful to you guys!

Antonio Zarza said:

So even If you’re a member of any other society in a different country, unless you had a Sub-Publisher in the territory, you’re not going to see any money.

I understand that’s why he is asking for a Publisher that can be represented in as many countries as possible and could track the registrations and the income.

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Exactly Antonio, I think you understand my case and need.

A Sub-Publisher helps the composer to collect for him what wasn't collecte yet. I have one, so I know how it works, it's just he doesn't cover the World other than Europe.

So, my question is not relative to understand the business, but if anyone knows good Sub-Publishers who collect uncollected Public Performance Rights - And no, PROs are not 100% efficient and leave out there more than residuals to be collected - often thousands of dollars per year.

I'm still not sure how a sub-publisher would help you collect unclaimed royalties for works already published by the production library you're with, but you could try an agency such as https://www.nrg-agency.com

Jeremy Spencer said:

I'm still not sure how a sub-publisher would help you collect unclaimed royalties for works already published by the production library you're with, but you could try an agency such as https://www.nrg-agency.com

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That’s because the Production Library Agency most probably doesn’t have representation (membership) in all of the countries and is not going to be available to register your tracks in those countries or claim anything there in case there where some of them Pending of Identify.

The Sub-Publisher is the one in each town who is available to track in his territory, and as @GrapeBotherhood well says, Societies don’t work well in this regard (believe me since I have to deal with them all the time) so If you don’t worry about your music, no one is going to take care outside your country for you.

It’s a business after all and one of the most lucrative business for the Societies are the works not identified since is money that in the end the Society keeps due to their rules, and once the time pass you’re not going to be able to claim anything.

For the question, I don’t know which Publisher of Production Music would be the best for your needs, I’m sorry…

Antonio Zarza said:

That’s because the Production Library Agency most probably doesn’t have representation (membership) in all of the countries and is not going to be available to register your tracks in those countries or claim anything there in case there where some of them Pending of Identify.

The Sub-Publisher is the one in each town who is available to track in his territory, and as @GrapeBotherhood well says, Societies don’t work well in this regard (believe me since I have to deal with them all the time) so If you don’t worry about your music, no one is going to take care outside your country for you.

It’s a business after all and one of the most lucrative business for the Societies are the works not identified since is money that in the end the Society keeps due to their rules, and once the time pass you’re not going to be able to claim anything.

For the question, I don’t know which Publisher of Production Music would be the best for your needs, I’m sorry…

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Sure, but in order to hire a sub-publisher simply to track your licensed works in their territory (which is odd), they would need to have some substantial skin in the game....such as another percentage of what's already been split between writer and publisher. So other than hiring an independent agency such as the company I linked, it doesn't make much sense. Anyways, I hope the OP gets it sorted.

Hi Jeremy, SOCAN as far as I know collects also the publisher share according to their website, and since the college mentioned that he own both rights, he could sign a deal with a Publisher which could be a member in everywhere (including SOCAN in this case as an example)

That’s how it would work.

I think what you’re referring to is in case the Production Library owned the Publisher share, but I understand is not the case and maybe what they have is a non-exclusive license to license the music to third parties (almost the same as it work the sync licenses) like an intermediary of the intermediary.

The only problem I see here is in case he signed with a Publisher, could be a conflict between the Production Library and them at least for the Sync direct deals, unless for the new music he share it first with the Production Library and when the song is placed then sign a new Publishing Agreement with the Publisher to collect the royalties, but this song is not going to be available to keep in the Production Library anymore since the Publisher own the publisher share now and their are going to have the Sync income.

Really nice talking about this with you guys BtW, always learning

Antonio Zarza said:

The only problem I see here is in case he signed with a Publisher, could be a conflict between the Production Library and them at least for the Sync direct deals, unless for the new music he share it first with the Production Library and when the song is placed then sign a new Publishing Agreement with the Publisher to collect the royalties, but this song is not going to be available to keep in the Production Library anymore since the Publisher own the publisher share now and their are going to have the Sync income.

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Bingo! This is exactly why the OP’s scenario is not a viable option. In order to comprehensively collect neighbouring rights, an agency is the way to go.

Jeremy Spencer said:

Bingo! This is exactly why the OP’s scenario is not a viable option. In order to comprehensively collect neighbouring rights, an agency is the way to go.

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I am the Publisher AND the Writer of my works, registered at SESAC, which collects Public Performances for me.

I repeat: I am the Publisher!

I Already have a Sub-Publisher which regularly pays me UNCOLLECTED royalties he can claim outside USA or anywhere my PRO failed to discover uncollected royalties. These are not neighbouring rights, these are public performance rights (ie: the music aired on TV in a commercial), stones left unturned by my PRO simply because every country has different proedures/laws in order to claim the royalties - hence: the role of the Sub-Publisher, expert in collecting the unclaimed royalties - which are sometimes thousands of $ in a year.

Since I am the Publisher, having a Sub-Publisher doesn't interfere with my PRO, and doesn't interfere with the music library, which only takes a percentage on music licenses sold to its clients, but it's a non exclusive deal which leaves me 100% of writer and publisher shares.

Rest assured I already know it's possible to collect both neighbouring rights + public performance royalties, because....I already do!

So, the question was not if I can, but which other Sub-Publisher companies are out there!

GrapeBotherhood said:

I am the Publisher AND the Writer of my works, registered at SESAC, which collects Public Performances for me.

I repeat: I am the Publisher!

I Already have a Sub-Publisher which regularly pays me UNCOLLECTED royalties he can claim outside USA or anywhere my PRO failed to discover uncollected royalties. These are not neighbouring rights, these are public performance rights (ie: the music aired on TV in a commercial), stones left unturned by my PRO simply because every country has different proedures/laws in order to claim the royalties - hence: the role of the Sub-Publisher, expert in collecting the unclaimed royalties - which are sometimes thousands of $ in a year.

Since I am the Publisher, having a Sub-Publisher doesn't interfere with my PRO, and doesn't interfere with the music library, which only takes a percentage on music licenses sold to its clients, but it's a non exclusive deal which leaves me 100% of writer and publisher shares.

Rest assured I already know it's possible to collect both neighbouring rights + public performance royalties, because....I already do!

So, the question was not if I can, but which other Sub-Publisher companies are out there!

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Fair enough. In all my years of doing this, I’ve never personally encountered such a deal with a production company (both exclusive and non), where you collect 100% pub and writers share. I sincerely hope you can find the solution you’re after. Cheers!

First, yes, there are libraries that do not take publisher's share. They only take a share of the license fee, as noted by the OP. I get publisher royalties every quarter for that reason.

To the OP - are you getting the writer's share for those commercials?

If so, it seems SESAC could also collect the publisher's share if you register the tracks with them as a publisher. I'm with ASCAP and I'm not sure how SESAC works but with ASCAP I just make sure the tracks are registered with me for both writer's and publisher's share. Note they are separate accounts with ASCAP, two totally different identifiers, different account logins, etc. Seems like you probably already thought of that.

However, my experience with commercials is that I almost never get any royalties for them, writer's or publisher's share. I've never gotten an explanation why from ASCAP. I've gotten a similar story from other composers/producers regarding commercials. But if you're getting the writer's share then I don't know why you can't just register those tracks as a SESAC publisher and collect the publishing.

Hi all! First post...

In my experience with ASCAP you need to track the ad, using Numerator (formerly Competitrack) and get an ad code for the spot or spots. Then fill out and submit an Ad Claim form to ASCAP for the ad in question. They will not pay out if you only register the tracks and do not submit the ad claim form.

GrapeBotherhood said:

I am the Publisher AND the Writer of my works, registered at SESAC, which collects Public Performances for me.

I repeat: I am the Publisher!

I Already have a Sub-Publisher which regularly pays me UNCOLLECTED royalties he can claim outside USA or anywhere my PRO failed to discover uncollected royalties. These are not neighbouring rights, these are public performance rights (ie: the music aired on TV in a commercial), stones left unturned by my PRO simply because every country has different proedures/laws in order to claim the royalties - hence: the role of the Sub-Publisher, expert in collecting the unclaimed royalties - which are sometimes thousands of $ in a year.

Since I am the Publisher, having a Sub-Publisher doesn't interfere with my PRO, and doesn't interfere with the music library, which only takes a percentage on music licenses sold to its clients, but it's a non exclusive deal which leaves me 100% of writer and publisher shares.

Rest assured I already know it's possible to collect both neighbouring rights + public performance royalties, because....I already do!

So, the question was not if I can, but which other Sub-Publisher companies are out there!

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Ok, I understand, then here the only problem I see is in case the Sub-Publisher want to place your music in his territory, because now I understand is the Production Library who do it worldwide, so for the Sub-Publisher is one line of business they cannot take but If it works for you, then it’s awesome.

As an example, If I’m your Sub-Publisher in Spain and somebody looks at SGAE registers, they’ll find I’m representing your music here, so then they call me to use your music in a TV show, Film, etc.

Since right now is the Production Library who is taking care of the Sync License, I as a Sub-Publisher I’m having one business line less, which is why I mentioned the conflict between both in my territory.

But I assume that If this is the case, for sure the Sub-Publisher would want to take the deal themselves instead of leave it to the Production Library.

But again, all depends on the Sub-Publishing deals and the conditions signed there.

MAM-BMAT handles that. and SESAC takes the BMAT data, so you should be good to go.

Look up Steve @ sounds like publishing... he's in the UK and has done wonders for 10% of what he finds. Haven't used him in 4 or so years, but the time we used him worked a treat - and he also got a nice cheque out of it. He's great for UK/Europe/US. PM me for his contact deets.

@rgames I'm super surprised you don't get royalties for US based TVC's. We had one last year thats been dribbling in quite nicely through our aussie PRO (APRA). I've never done a spot there that hasn't shown up - even if it takes around 18 months for the data to drip thru the system. In general for us, USA, UK, some of Europe has found its way to APRA - both publishing and writers shares.

Now - where I've had HUGE trouble tracking down ANY royalties is music on ads that are only online. We've got music on spots with 100's of millions of views...

While we are on the subject of royalties - I know I SHOULD know this, but neighbouring royalties were mentioned earlier in this thread. Could someone explain a little more about them. We here have music on TVC's mostly, but also some film (cinema and netflix), TV shows (Australia and Europe) - as well as a bunch of theatre. Is this relevant at all to us? I feel like I should know ALL about this (and I've gone in deep with straight up writers / publishers shares) but I still feel like I'm missing a tonne of info.

Finally - does anyone know if there are any collection agencies in Indonesia, Philipines or Thailand or MENA? We have a tonne of spots on air there - TVC and online.

Oh and Soundmouse's parent company, Orfium, is likely worth chatting to...?

And of course, the big kids on the block, Songtradr. They certainly have eyes on becoming a "one platform to rule all things" including collecting royalities. I have no idea how far along their world domination project (ha!) they are. They're certainly on a buying spree... They now own 2 different music houses that are here in Sydney... I digress.