Exporting StaffPad to DAW for improving samples?

brandowalk said:

Does anyone here export (or recreate) their pieces from StaffPad to a DAW for swapping out patches or improving performances? I'm not referring to mixing/mastering in a DAW but replacing samples. If so, can you expand on what you do? What libraries do you use instead? Is it worth the effort?

I think the output in StaffPad is pretty amazing considering the effort for writing on an iPad. That said, I am in search of an even better-sounding mock-up. I am dusting off my vast collection of Kontakt libraries to get them up and running again. I have barely touched them since I started on StaffPad two years ago. Now with a much faster computer, more RAM, and Apple Silicon compatibility issues out of the way, I hope for a better experience.

Ironically, I had bought BBCSO-pro only two months before StaffPad. I used it only once and then switched over platforms! I like that library's sound and spatial depth and wish I had more of that quality from StaffPad.

I will still use StaffPad for writing, but I'm interested in the effort required to achieve a better-sounding output with other libraries. Any suggestions are appreciated.

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Beside StaffPad I have a copy of Dorico and noteperformer. With the new noteperformer you could link your BBSCO-pro to the Dorico notated score (imported from StaffPad via music xml). I find that the noteperformer output is more precise special in swift passages. StaffPad is much legato and lack precision.
That said I don’t own a copy of a sample library, but thinking about is.

jadi said:

Beside StaffPad I have a copy of Dorico and noteperformer. With the new noteperformer you could link your BBSCO-pro to the Dorico notated score (imported from StaffPad via music xml). I find that the noteperformer output is more precise special in swift passages. StaffPad is much legato and lack precision.
That said I don’t own a copy of a sample library, but thinking about is.

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I'd be curious about the difference in playback between the two platforms. I can try it at least with Dorico's 60-day trial. Thank you for the suggestion!

Technically speaking, Staffpad uses magic and special sauce to get their sounds.

You can move the musicxml to Dorico but you are going to lose the magic and special sauce (you will need to create your own).

Staffpad nailed it in terms of playback. Recreating or surpassing in Dorico will require time and effort.

I do just that. I export both audio and midi for each track. I go thru track by track note by note phrase by phrase and make my sounds and mix. Effort? There’s never too much effort when creating something you like and especially when it is music.

@ssnowe has hit the nail on the head. If you’re going to sound better than StaffPad in a DAW, you’d better be a pretty fancy chef. I have Dorico with Noteperformer, BBCSO, Berklee, and CSS. They don’t sound better than StaffPad. They might for some things, but mostly not. I’ve heard some short mockups in a DAW where folks have hit it outta the park, but try as I might, I don’t have those skills. What’s more, I don’t have the patience to spend an entire day tweaking 8 measures of music.

P.S. I should add that I have had some success tweaking my StaffPad stems in my DAW with the Berlin libraries, but it wasn’t a world of difference.

I find this algorithm of actions attractive: create on StaffPad that part of the music that StaffPad is capable of to the maximum. Next, export this project to DAW as audio tracks. Next, add those sample libraries or physical modeling that are not in StaffPad in order to realize that part of the music that StaffPad is not capable of realizing - for example, various complex articulations, advanced techniques, prepared piano, etc.

I find that sometimes, particularly in fast pieces with lots of rhythmic content/dynamic range, StaffPad can’t produce a viable output.
When this happens, I export MusicXML, open up my DAW (Reaper), and load an orchestral template. Then I begin the task of importing the MusicXML and getting each instrument/section sounding good. I typically use the Cinematic Studio Series, and a Kontakt script to handle the delay offset. The process takes time, but I believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

This is an excerpt of a piece that sounded awful on StaffPad (dynamics out of balance, machine gun samples in some places, and some spots that were just a garbled mess), but sounds decent in a DAW:



For slower to medium tempo projects with expressive passages, StaffPad (particularly the Berlin series) does a great job with minimal editing.

@Karmand & @OstrovskyiComposer - thank you.

@SoundsOfIvey sounds good!

I will try that, although I don't think my DAW (ProTools) imports xml, only midi. I'm not clear if there is a difference between midi/xml for this type of function.

I have a feeling I will lose patience with the midi import and end up re-performing many of the primary parts. Maybe this is a good thing to give a realistic feel.

Thanks.

For me, the advantage of XML is that it has no midi cc data. If working with imported midi, I have to run a script to remove all cc data that might mess up my panning, volume, etc. which I have already carefully tuned.

I’ve seen people get wonderful results playing in the parts, and it can add quite a bit of realism. Hope you find the way that works best for you!

OstrovskyiComposer said:

I find this algorithm of actions attractive: create on StaffPad that part of the music that StaffPad is capable of to the maximum. Next, export this project to DAW as audio tracks. Next, add those sample libraries or physical modeling that are not in StaffPad in order to realize that part of the music that StaffPad is not capable of realizing - for example, various complex articulations, advanced techniques, prepared piano, etc.

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i've been working like this as well. I let SF do what it does best. I've added Notion/Notion Mobile to the mix to notate things that i know will be played by sample libraries for extended techniques, other articulations, etc. and send that natively over to Studio One where i can put it all together and play in synths, prepared piano, etc. as well.

I once had to replace a part played by Spitfire Cellos when I exported stems as audio for mixing, because there was one note which was just out of tune.

I loaded up Spitfire Studio Strings Cellos and used the Staffpad midi export to try and mix/match them just for one line with the out of tune note. It kinda worked.

muratkayi said:

I once had to replace a part played by Spitfire Cellos when I exported stems as audio for mixing, because there was one note which was just out of tune.

I loaded up Spitfire Studio Strings Cellos and used the Staffpad midi export to try and mix/match them just for one line with the out of tune note. It kinda worked.

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I find that I can use my OT libraries with StaffPad stems—sort of, mostly. But I have a terrible time getting other libraries to sit in the mix. I always have this trouble when mixing libraries, so it’s nothing new. It’s just my lack of skill in this area.

I will occasionally replace an instrument or two out of StaffPad-- I usually just import the MIDI/Stems into my big DAW template, mute the instrument's stem, and then re-program that instrument or section from scratch using the new patch. Occasionally I will add instruments such as specialty synths or something through similar process, using the MIDI from StaffPad as a guide to get tempos, time signatures, and that sort of thing set up.

The MIDI from StaffPad is obviously very literal, with no note overlaps and all durations exactly as written, so I've found that it is not usually useful for me to use that MIDI data for another patch. As others have said, StaffPad's playback engine has a great deal of special sauce that turns that rather clumsy MIDI into a shockingly good sample realization, but it doesn't in my experience translate to just dropping the MIDI into a new track.

A dry export from StaffPad helps-- I typically turn off all reverb and compression before I make the stems and then route them in Logic in the same way that I do my orchestral template. I've found this makes it pretty easy to program in new stuff or replace existing stuff and have everything sit together reasonably well.

i did this today with a new piece, 1st since the latest update and muse sounds. did my usual balances and little to no reverb in SP. i barely had to touch anything in my DAW. a bit of eq and re-balancing on a few instruments, a bit of compression to kill a few spikes. other than that, it sounded fantastic.

I am working on a piece where I set myself the goal of trying to do as much within Staffpad as possible.
I started out with an audio recording I tempo mapped and started to orchestrate and just use onboard FX, the mysterious one knob mastering and even did glitch FX by rendering and reimporting. I am really looking forward to seeing how far I can take it staying well within the Staffpad ecosystem

Karmand said:

I do just that. I export both audio and midi for each track. I go thru track by track note by note phrase by phrase and make my sounds and mix. Effort? There’s never too much effort when creating something you like and especially when it is music.

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@Karmand (or anyone) -

As soon as I find the time , I’m going to do what you described. I’m at the point of taking action to achieve better quality than I’m getting with SP and the playback limitations.

For inspiration - it would be awesome to hear some tracks that you have gone the extra mile beyond StaffPad. No worries if not.

Any notes on what you changed out would also be appreciated.

The piece I am working on is part of an EP with probably 6 (mayyyybe 7) tracks of orchestral music I am compiling to send to production companies and editorial offices.

Most of these are done within Staffpad with final mixing and mastering in a DAW. Some start out with an audio pilot track imported into Staffpad when orchestrating a solo piano piece.

At least two are tracked in Staffpad only and then mixed in a DAW.

The one I am working on will be mixed and mastered in Staffpad only.

I wanted to post these somewhere on VI, anyway. I will write a bit about what I did, because this whole place is all about how to approach virtual production and I think Staffpad is an important option, even if you are not 100% happy with all of its output, because
a) getting away from "composing by performing"
b) doing so by handwriting recognition
really freed me from the boxes I was composing in.

I think that even for keyswitch heavy specialties like ethnic fiddles or something Staffpad might be useful in the composition phase if you export the midi and edit keyswitches later.
Anyway, once I am done, I will get on all of our nerves here, mine included, trying to get people to "look what I've done" in the samdbox