Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Dorico Engrave - Anybody find it incredibly confusing?

A

ALittleNightMusic

Professional Amateur
I used Sibelius a long time ago but I don't remember adjusting the layout of the score being SO confusing and convoluted as I've found it in Dorico. I've watched a number of tutorials and still get confused about frames and systems and note spacing, etc.

For example, right now, I just simply want to move this last bar into the previous line and compress everything to fit 4 measures into that line. For the life of me, can't figure out an easy, straightforward way to do this.

Screenshot 2024-01-19 at 3.38.44 PM.png

For all of the intuitiveness in the rest of Dorico (Setup, Write, Play modes), I find Engrave to be severely lacking personally.
Click to read more...
 
I agree 100% that there are some odd decisions here and there about Dorico. Earlier this year I used Dorico to do score prep for an orchestral recording on a film, and I still don't feel like I ever truly understood what was going on in Engrave most of the time.

Anyway, to do what you want:

1) Select all 4 bars in Write Mode
2) Switch to Engrave mode
3) Switch to "Graphic Edit" mode within Engrave Mode. (it's the one on the left that is a note head with a box at the top of the stem.
4) Under the "Format Systems" drop down, select "Make Into System"


This is so clumsy, that one of the first things I did when I started using Dorico was create a macro to do this in one key command. I don't remember the details of setting it up, but it involves the "Script" item of the menubar. I don't even know if you can create more than one macro, because this is the only one I've ever felt such a burning need to create.
 
brek said:
I agree 100% that there are some odd decisions here and there about Dorico. Earlier this year I used Dorico to do score prep for an orchestral recording on a film, and I still don't feel like I ever truly understood what was going on in Engrave most of the time.

Anyway, to do what you want:

1) Select all 4 bars in Write Mode
2) Switch to Engrave mode
3) Switch to "Graphic Edit" mode within Engrave Mode. (it's the one on the left that is a note head with a box at the top of the stem.
4) Under the "Format Systems" drop down, select "Make Into System"


This is so clumsy, that one of the first things I did when I started using Dorico was create a macro to do this in one key command. I don't remember the details of setting it up, but it involves the "Script" item of the menubar. I don't even know if you can create more than one macro, because this is the only one I've ever felt such a burning need to create.
Click to expand...
Thanks - turns out I had an extra system in place (which you can only see if you show the signposts - which I hide immediately for any new project). Once I deleted that, the last bar popped back up into the previous line. Still - what a confusing approach to layout (and judging by the amount of similar questions that popup when I searched this on Google, it seems like a pretty common complaint!).
 
For me, the absolute benefit of Dorico is the level of micro control I get in Engrave Mode. Being able to adjust every detail to my liking is one of the things I've missed in all other notation software. If you understand the way it works you can set everything in a way that you get exactly the result you want without much interference anymore and consequentially gain speed over the other softwares where you need to manually interfere every now and then to match the results you want.

This level of micro detail comes at the cost of higher complexity at first but you'll learn to appreciate the possibilities this opens up once you've mastered it.

I tend to see learning a software like learning a new instrument. You wouldn't expect to play it in a day just by watching a few tutorials on YT and the same applies to software that is targeted to cater to the needs of professionals.
 
mducharme said:
Why are you selecting the four bars in write mode?

I do this all the time, but I just go to engrave mode, select the bars there, make into system, and done.
Click to expand...
😱

All this time I assumed you had to go into WRITE mode first because SHIFT+click doesn't work in Engrave. Possibly a holdover from some Steinberg forum post in the Dorico 2/3 days?

I've gotten so used to this workflow it's not likely to change for me, but good to know!


sundrowned said:
Even easier in engrave select an item in the last bar you want to be part of the previous system and choose move to previous system. Comma is the default shortcut.
Click to expand...
Looks like this was added in Dorico 4 - good to know as well!
 
You can hide the signposts? I looked for that and gave up; good to know I just need to look harder lol.
 
madfloyd said:
You can hide the signposts? I looked for that and gave up; good to know I just need to look harder lol.
Click to expand...
My experience has been that I can do pretty much whatever I want if I look hard enough including searching the Dorico forum.

**Leigh
 
brek said:
All this time I assumed you had to go into WRITE mode first because SHIFT+click doesn't work in Engrave.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's CTRL+click. Just select anything from the where you want to begin the selection (e.g. a notehead) and then something at the end.
 
sundrowned said:
Even easier in engrave select an item in the last bar you want to be part of the previous system and choose move to previous system. Comma is the default shortcut.
Click to expand...
That didn't work for me. If they provided some more indications on WHY it didn't work as expected, that would also be helpful (like a dialog box message or something).
 
ALittleNightMusic said:
That didn't work for me. If they provided some more indications on WHY it didn't work as expected, that would also be helpful (like a dialog box message or something).
Click to expand...
Well that's odd.

Here's an explanation in case that helps

Tip: Move bar to the previous or next system – Dorico

In Engrave mode, select an item in the bar you wish to move. Move the bar to the next system, or the previous system. You can use key commands to move bars to the next system (period), or the previous system (comma). You can move multiple bars at once, including across frames and pages.
blog.dorico.com blog.dorico.com
 
sundrowned said:
Well that's odd.

Here's an explanation in case that helps

Tip: Move bar to the previous or next system – Dorico

In Engrave mode, select an item in the bar you wish to move. Move the bar to the next system, or the previous system. You can use key commands to move bars to the next system (period), or the previous system (comma). You can move multiple bars at once, including across frames and pages.
blog.dorico.com blog.dorico.com
Click to expand...
I wonder if it was a bug or I somehow got the project into a state that broke something. In any case, thanks for posting the tip!
 
ALittleNightMusic said:
I used Sibelius a long time ago but I don't remember adjusting the layout of the score being SO confusing and convoluted as I've found it in Dorico. I've watched a number of tutorials and still get confused about frames and systems and note spacing, etc.

For example, right now, I just simply want to move this last bar into the previous line and compress everything to fit 4 measures into that line. For the life of me, can't figure out an easy, straightforward way to do this.

Screenshot 2024-01-19 at 3.38.44 PM.png

For all of the intuitiveness in the rest of Dorico (Setup, Write, Play modes), I find Engrave to be severely lacking personally.
Click to expand...
Two clicks: Select any element of m. 24 (noehead, stem rest or final barline), then touch the "," key which will cast that measure back to the previous system. The "." key casts off to the next system. I also find the "make into frame feature to be really useful for making larger adjustments, especially when detailing page turns and movement boundaries.

[EDIT: I see some other posts with he same answer--sorry for the redundancy]
 
I have a little bit of experience with professional desktop publishing apps such as Quark Xpress and Adobe InDesign + illustrator, and I feel like Dorico could really take some UI design cues from these programs, InDesign especially. Engrave mode can be pretty maddening to do basic things like text boxes, or just simply clicking and moving frames.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom