MIDI programming of LOTR Prologue violins

I think it depends on your objective here. Do you aim to replicate as closely as possible the original performance, or a you aiming to create your own performance of the music ?

If you want to create a new unique "performance", we're only talking about how believable your mockup is.
1. The approach/ramp up to the second note (C) sound a bit too abrupt, thus unnatural to me.
2. The link between the B and Eb at the end sounds unnatural - something about how there is a lack of a slight pause or dip in bowing intensity at the moment the note changes. Listen to the original, you'll hear it happening, and I think you can replicate it.

Assuming you want to replicate as closely as possible, there's probably thousands here more able than me to give you tips, but I'll give you my two cents.
1. I think placing the line in its full original context to examine it and make tweaks to bring it closer to the original among the full context would be best. This way, you'll be able to work at finessing and hiding the small differences inside the big picture, not work at details that would either be lost in the mix or bring nothing to it.
2. There's something about the attack of the notes of the B-C-B-A-C-B motif that's a slight bit too strong compared to the original who's a bit more sleazy and less defined. If you can tweak the volume of the initial attack of the notes somehow (possibly in the patch's settings, not in the MIDI?) you might get something a slight bit closer - but again, keep my first comment in mind. This is a detail I'd only try to tweak if it'd still bother me inside the full picture.
3. Part of the overall resulting effect of the line is the vibrato of the original line - especially on the two held Bs (the inital note, and the one at the end before the Eb). See if you can get that out of the library you're using.

Thank you for listening and for giving all this useful feedback, I appreciate it. It is a luxury to have this place where you can post your stuff and then other sample library users may listen to it and offer suggestions.

I didn't consciously make a decision as to whether I wanted to make my own performance of the music or instead create a mockup that was as close to the original as possible - my mockup skill level is at a place where I'm happy if I manage to make something that just sounds half-way decent!

On a similar note, the way it sounds is not always the result of conscious choices; instead they're things that "just happened to be that way" when I made this simple musical line. I absolutely can hear what you mean with 1) and 2) in the first section of your comment. That's something I can/will work on for sure.

The second section of your comment has a really good point about finishing the musical line with the rest of the instruments to avoid making changes that turn out to be a waste of time because it's not gonna be audible anyway when the other instruments are playing.

As for the attack and vibrato level of notes, I'm using Nashville Scoring Strings for this example and I don't know the library very well. There's no manual but I seem to remember one has to watch a technical walkthrough made by Audio Olllie on Youtube to learn the ins and outs of the library. I'll have to do that if I want to continue using NSS but tbh I'm thinking of buying Berlin Strings piecemeal, starting with Violins I Longs and Shorts.

I already have Berlin Woodwinds and Berlin Brass, and I know there are i.e. Sustains with different attacks in Berlin Strings just as in the other two libraries. There are also different vibrato levels. So that would be useful in sculpting this LOTR Prologue string line with your suggestions kept in mind.

Thanks again

Super late night reply, so forgive me if I get a bit rambly towards the end. I think this is a worthwhile topic though so I hope some of it is useful.

The most prominent problems I hear are with the phrasing and dynamics. I agree with the performance suggestions from @CPacaud that front. The CC11 curves seem fairly extreme compared to the CC1. They are also a bit random in the sense that sometimes CC11 goes up while CC1 goes down. These things lead to unnatural swells in the line, e.g. when it gets much louder volume-wise even though the dynamic intensity of the performance stays the same or even decreases. You will generally get a more realistic effect if the CC11/volume curves are very nuanced and reinforce the dynamic expression. For example by turning a descrescendo into an al niente performance. Or perhaps a slight dip in both CC1 & CC11 to simulate a bow change.

Henrik B. Jensen said:

I haven't used CC 1 and CC 11 this detailed before

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I hope you enjoyed it because this stuff is bread and butter when making orchestral mockups. Instead of painstakingly drawing every curve you can speed it up massively by recording your CCs live with a midi fader. If you have one, I would highly recommend using it to practice creating idiomatic dynamic shaping. You could experiment by just looping this ring motif and trying to get close to the performance of the reference recording by just moving the faders. Then just keep going over and over to get a feel for it this stuff. Then experiment with a more consistently soft variation, or one with much more extreme dynamic differences, and so on. Experiment with different melodies, or different types of lines as well. Analyzing reference recordings like you are doing here is a super useful way to both learn more about the virtual and real instruments this way.

When composing your own realistic/expressive orchestral music, you can no longer compare your virtual input to real examples, and instead must rely on your own mental audiation of how the music should sound like. This stuff is hard, but familiarizing yourself with the possibilities of the real instruments by listening to so many reference recordings should help develop your instincts

Good luck!

Good points, I actually knew that people who use CC 1 and CC 11 at the same time use them "in parallel", to increase the effect when making ebbs and flows in the music. And I already started practicing playing and using Modwheel at the same time to play phrases instead of drawing stuff in. It's much more satisfying and fun but of course also harder, probably especially in the beginning until one get's the hang of it.

I'll check some of the stuff I've been playing in and post something so you can hear how I do it
It's gonna be embarrasing because of my bad playing though !
Thanks again!

Edit:
Ah well, I cleaned up in my Project files and I think I deleted the ones where I just practice playing stuff. It wasn't so important anyway, you can probably imagine what it sounds like: Having a phrase in my mind and then trying over and over to "get it right" by playing it in while using the Modwheel for CC 1.

Just a little note: I'll switch to CSS 1.7.1 because I know that library better.

This I just played in now, then added CC #2 for vibrato by hand:

View attachment CSS 1.7.1 LOTR.mp3

Here's the piano roll:



(I remember that NoamL wrote that he doesn't use CC #11 for adding ebbs and flows when using CSS because it's already "built into" the sound, i.e. in the performance of the recorded musicians. So I'm just using CC #1 here)

Have you seen the videos where AKD programs a few LOTR mockups?

mybadmemory said:

Have you seen the videos where AKD programs a few LOTR mockups?

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Ah yes, she uses CSS! I did watch the three videos but it was a long time ago. I’m gonna look at them again. Thanks