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Which Macbook Pro to buy M1 or M2 or M3 for intensive orchestral (VI) scores

S

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX

Member
My film/tv scoring daughter has some college scholarship money (around $5K) to buy a loaded macbook pro that will last her for college years and beyond (her major is film/tv/media scoring at one of the best such programs).
* wants minimum 64gb ram and 4tb ssd though have budget for 8tb if advisable to have the largest single internal drive
* prefers 14" as her current older model 16" macbook pro is too heavy to walk 3 miles a day with.
* exclusively Logic user so Apple only

Budget for the new laptop is $4k to $6k.

I heard m2 and m3 are worse than m1for Logic due to single core and performance core issues. With huge numbers of orchestral VIs running and Omnisphere, our biggest requirement is to avoid choking now and grow with her needs in future. She has been lucky to score a couple full length fetaure films, one being screened at Sundance and SXSW Texas. She hopes her new aptop will serve her for 7 to 8 years.

Would love your input on the following:

1. I am able to find some refurbished M1 64GB / 4tb. This helps save money but do you think it is advisable to go with a laptop 2 generations older?

2. Would 14 inch be a major constraint? She hates lugging around her heavy 2012 16" Macbook pro and instinctively wants lighter/smaller. But do you think she should still consider 16" as they may be lighter than 2012 model. Her composing is always on the move... No docking options in the small dorm desk.

3. Budget seems to allow 8tb ssd vs 4tb for an extra $1K. We want to avoid dongled external ssd's. She
already maxed out her current 4TB ssd's and will likely max out 8tb in a few years. Do you advise going with 8tb? Pros and cons of this option especiallly if we go with M1 (maybe few or no choices available in M1 with 8tb.) Is putting all eggs in one 8tb basket a big no no? 64gb ram and 8tb ssd is tempting in regards to avoiding future bottlenecks.

4. Also is 96gb ram worth considering especially if she wants a servicable laptop for composing for next 7 or 8 years?

5. Would it be a major mistake to go with older M1 model re warranty, reliability, OS obsoleteness etc? Though it may save $1.5 to 2k (we would love this) and get a more VI scoring / Logic friendly option with M1? - - i am confused on m1 vs m2 vs m3

You guys helped me set up a 2012 Mackbook pro (with 2 internal 2tb ssd's) for less than $700 total that has served my daughter well for last 2 years. I would appreciate your advice on this new purchase.

Thank you all in advance
Click to read more...
 
Following. I'm looking to replace my MacBook Pro in the near future, so I'll be interested to hear what people say. There are people with way more expertise than I, so I won't try to tackle your questions. I'll just say that while getting as large an internal drive as is affordable is wise, it's an easy thing to have an external SSD drive for holding libraries. I've been using the Samsung T7 drives for years; they're great. Also, you still might want to consider having an extra monitor - it could sit above her laptop, on some kind of shelf. The extra real estate makes all the difference.
 
An M3 Max 16 core will get you double the amount of simultaneously playing tracks compared with the best M1 Max. Now whether you actually need e.g. 100 simultaneous Kontakt and Omnisphere tracks instead of 50 is another question. But the greater CPU power makes the M3 Max more future proof.

The 14 inch is much more portable, however the drawback is thermal throttling leading to fans spinning up. This will mainly manifest itself during graphics intensive applications and games, not a big worry for audio use.

It is very nice to have a large SSD and RAM, you can load up a big template and don’t need portable SSDs hanging off the computer. But this comes at a very big price increase.

If your budget is up to USD 5k I would suggest the 14 inch 16 core M3 Max with 64 GB RAM and 4TB SSD (at USD 4.9k)
 
Thanks. I see 2 configs with similar pricing with only a few hundred dollars difference. BELOW with student discount:

Option A) 14 inch MBP M3 Max, 4TB SSD

14 CORE CPU / 30 CORE GPU
96GB RAM is $4519 (64gb is not an option here)

Option B) 14 inch MBP M3 Max, 4TB SSD

16 CORE CPU / 40 CORE GPU
64GB RAM is $4429

For primarily intensive VI orchestral templates and syncing to full feature length films, which is better? Intensive video editing is not anticipated in near future but my daughter does a lot of Adobe work and may get into more of that later.

Which is better for music production - more cpu gpu cores or more RAM? Which combo is more future proof for the media creation, both audio and video in general?

TIA
 
I can only say what I would choose, and I would go for the 16 core. It will give you 10% more simultaneous tracks than the 14 core. It will also perform faster in video editing.

64 GB RAM will be sufficient for loading almost a complete orchestral template into memory, with some articulations/tracks disabled. 96 GB will get you even closer, if that is important. However, for video editing and most other productivity applications the increased RAM doesn’t bring any real benefits.
 
Sheridan said:
I can only say what I would choose, and I would go for the 16 core. It will give you 10% more simultaneous tracks than the 14 core. It will also perform faster in video editing.

64 GB RAM will be sufficient for loading almost a complete orchestral template into memory, with some articulations/tracks disabled. 96 GB will get you even closer, if that is important. However, for video editing and most other productivity applications the increased RAM doesn’t bring any real benefits.
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I'd definitely want the extra RAM over the extra 2 CPU cores. The 14-core M3 Max with 96 GB RAM would be my choice. It's still a stupidly powerful laptop even without the extra two cores, and with large templates, RAM is more often the first bottleneck.

Especially in the 14" model, it shouldn't throttle as much as the 16-core version will in the smaller chassis. I've seen some tests showing the full unbinned 16-core version choking pretty hard in the 14" model which has significantly smaller fans and heat pipe than the 16".

14-16-m3-max.png

It's also only $100 more than the 16-core with 64 GB.

14-core / 96 GB / 4 TB: $4,999
16-core / 64 GB / 4 TB: $4,899
 
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Well you can look at it this way in terms of future proofing or when you reach your computer’s limits:

Lack of storage space can be solved by adding external drives.

Lack of RAM can be addressed by workflow hacks like disabling/enabling tracks or reducing preload buffers.

But you cannot ever make your Mac’s processor any faster. CPU performance is fixed at time of purchase.

And while the 16 core will throttle a bit more than the 14 core, in my experience that only happens in sustained intensive usage, not typical DAW and audio work
 
Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:
2. Would 14 inch be a major constraint? She hates lugging around her heavy 2012 16" Macbook pro and instinctively wants lighter/smaller. But do you think she should still consider 16" as they may be lighter than 2012 model. Her composing is always on the move... No docking options in the small dorm desk.
Click to expand...
There is no 16" 2012 Macbook Pro. Did she have a 2012 15", or a 2011 17"? The former weighed 5.6 pounds, the latter weighed 6.6 pounds.

14" M3 Max MBP: 3.6 pounds
16" M3 Max MBP: 4.8 pounds
 
I think 96 GB is your priority. Number of cores is priority no. 2. Hard drive size should be last. Portable drives are very small and super fast for a fraction of Apple’s price. These M chips are super powerful, and RAM is likely to be the bottleneck in big productions.
 
Sheridan said:
Well you can look at it this way in terms of future proofing or when you reach your computer’s limits:

Lack of storage space can be solved by adding external drives.

Lack of RAM can be addressed by workflow hacks like disabling/enabling tracks or reducing preload buffers.

But you cannot ever make your Mac’s processor any faster. CPU performance is fixed at time of purchase.

And while the 16 core will throttle a bit more than the 14 core, in my experience that only happens in sustained intensive usage, not typical DAW and audio work
Click to expand...
Of course it is always nice to have as much power as possible, but the 14-core M3 Max is already such a powerful laptop as-is. It beats out the M1 Ultra Mac Studio by a fair margin in a lot of benchmarks.

I have 72 GB of RAM in my 2019 i9 iMac. I'm purely a hobbyist, and when a good number of orchestral tracks are enabled with many of them using more than one mic position, RAM usage can get very close to 64 GB. For professional work, 64 GB would be the absolute minimum I would ever consider, and would greatly prefer 96 GB.

I mean, if they can stretch the budget and go with the 16-core with 128 GB, then sure, go for it. But I still strongly believe that RAM is more important than just 2 more CPU cores, so 14-core / 96 GB is still my recommendation. If it was 12 cores (8p/4e) vs 16 cores (12p/4e) then that would be a different story.
 
Justin L. Franks said:
There is no 16" 2012 Macbook Pro. Did she have a 2012 15", or a 2011 17"? The former weighed 5.6 pounds, the latter weighed 6.6 pounds.

14" M3 Max MBP: 3.6 pounds
16" M3 Max MBP: 4.8 pounds
Click to expand...
You are right, no 16" 2012 MBP - It is 15.4. Seems heavier than 5.6 lb. I did replace the hdd and optical drives with 2tb SSD's - not sure if that added to the weight. The 14" at 3.6lb would be perfect from a portability perspective.
 
Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:
You are right, no 16" 2012 MBP - It is 15.4. Seems heavier than 5.6 lb. I did replace the hdd and optical drives with 2tb SSD's - not sure if that added to the weight. The 14" at 3.6lb would be perfect from a portability perspective.
Click to expand...
SSDs are much lighter than either the original HD or optical drive. I have more or less the same machine, though I still have the dvd drive. I agree it feels bulky these days, which I think just shows how far these things have evolved.
 
Thanks to all for your input.

So no takers on apple store refurbished M1 or M2? Granted, it's not much savings since she won't be getting student discounts on the refurbished. M1 Max 64/4 TB is $800 less than M3 Max, with student discount . M2 Max 64/4 TB is $500 less then M3 Max. Also M1 and M2 refurbished only available in 16-in on the Apple refurbished store
 
Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:
Thanks to all for your input.

So no takers on apple store refurbished M1 or M2? Granted, it's not much savings since she won't be getting student discounts on the refurbished. M1 Max 64/4 TB is $800 less than M3 Max, with student discount . M2 Max 64/4 TB is $500 less then M3 Max. Also M1 and M2 refurbished only available in 16-in on the Apple refurbished store
Click to expand...
The price has gone up a bit but there was this:

Post in thread 'How's an M1 Max Macbook these days? BF deal'
https://vi-control.net/community/th...acbook-these-days-bf-deal.146205/post-5452060
 
I'm on a 64gb M1 Mac Studio and it works very nicely for intensive, Kontakt-heavy orchestral scoring.

You should look into whether the laptops throttle more than the Studios. But if it's all good, then that machine should work well.

Also I switched from a 15" MBP to a big 27" display (third party from LG, the Studio Display is a ripoff) and it's so awesome. The more screen real estate you have in Logic, the better. Especially with complicated orchestral scores. I think a 14" laptop screen would be an obstacle for me. Your daughter knows her needs best though. Just something to think about.
 
Use a 32 gb MBP M2 Pro Max, but not a professional media composer. Wonderfully fast laptop though :). I got an Apple Store refurb to save a bit.
 
Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:
My film/tv scoring daughter has some college scholarship money (around $5K) to buy a loaded macbook pro that will last her for college years and beyond (her major is film/tv/media scoring at one of the best such programs).
* wants minimum 64gb ram and 4tb ssd though have budget for 8tb if advisable to have the largest single internal drive
* prefers 14" as her current older model 16" macbook pro is too heavy to walk 3 miles a day with.
* exclusively Logic user so Apple only

Budget for the new laptop is $4k to $6k.

I heard m2 and m3 are worse than m1for Logic due to single core and performance core issues. With huge numbers of orchestral VIs running and Omnisphere, our biggest requirement is to avoid choking now and grow with her needs in future. She has been lucky to score a couple full length fetaure films, one being screened at Sundance and SXSW Texas. She hopes her new aptop will serve her for 7 to 8 years.

Would love your input on the following:

1. I am able to find some refurbished M1 64GB / 4tb. This helps save money but do you think it is advisable to go with a laptop 2 generations older?

2. Would 14 inch be a major constraint? She hates lugging around her heavy 2012 16" Macbook pro and instinctively wants lighter/smaller. But do you think she should still consider 16" as they may be lighter than 2012 model. Her composing is always on the move... No docking options in the small dorm desk.

3. Budget seems to allow 8tb ssd vs 4tb for an extra $1K. We want to avoid dongled external ssd's. She
already maxed out her current 4TB ssd's and will likely max out 8tb in a few years. Do you advise going with 8tb? Pros and cons of this option especiallly if we go with M1 (maybe few or no choices available in M1 with 8tb.) Is putting all eggs in one 8tb basket a big no no? 64gb ram and 8tb ssd is tempting in regards to avoiding future bottlenecks.

4. Also is 96gb ram worth considering especially if she wants a servicable laptop for composing for next 7 or 8 years?

5. Would it be a major mistake to go with older M1 model re warranty, reliability, OS obsoleteness etc? Though it may save $1.5 to 2k (we would love this) and get a more VI scoring / Logic friendly option with M1? - - i am confused on m1 vs m2 vs m3

You guys helped me set up a 2012 Mackbook pro (with 2 internal 2tb ssd's) for less than $700 total that has served my daughter well for last 2 years. I would appreciate your advice on this new purchase.

Thank you all in advance
Click to expand...
I've read mixed things about the M1-M2 vs M3 for audio. Some reports I've seen suggest that a widely circulating video from a YouTuber might have had some errors as to the settings used that didn't utilize efficiency cores in Logic and other DAWs. I skimmed, so do some digging yourself as I may be wrong. Apple will surely optimize Logic for M3 eventually if they haven't already.

If I were y'all I would get as much CPU and RAM as you can afford. While it certainly is appealing for a college student to run everything internally, and that may well be the best solution, forum member David found negligible difference between loading samples from an internal drive vs an NVME external drive, and getting an external sample drive might be a way to put your money towards the aspects of the computer that are most relevant to composing workflow, CPU and RAM. Keep in mind that if she were to need a new computer sooner than expected, external drives are reusable and probably wouldn't require replacement. This personally was a consideration for me when I recently upgraded my system. As elegant as it would be to try to run everything off one drive, it's a bit hard to justify the cost long term. But for her of course it may be a difference story, at least for now.

It's no fun to lug around a big laptop, but for serious music work in my view the bigger the screen the better, and I'm not sure the 14 inch would feel all that much more portable than the 16. Also, don't forget a time machine backup drive for the dorm room. Don't want to lose work before a deadline. Good luck! I think probably can't make a wrong decision as they all seem to be great computers, and Apple stuff generally holds its resale value well if it comes to that.
 
Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:
Thanks to all for your input.

So no takers on apple store refurbished M1 or M2? Granted, it's not much savings since she won't be getting student discounts on the refurbished. M1 Max 64/4 TB is $800 less than M3 Max, with student discount . M2 Max 64/4 TB is $500 less then M3 Max. Also M1 and M2 refurbished only available in 16-in on the Apple refurbished store
Click to expand...
There should be student discounts on refurbs. I know I got one a few years ago.

But I think the best deals on M1's is NOS from B&H.

Like this 14" M1 Max / 64 GB / 2 TB for $2399.

 
Justin L. Franks said:
There should be student discounts on refurbs. I know I got one a few years ago
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to have student discounts for their refurbished store.

I did find B&H Edu site thru Unidays memembership but not able to see actual discounts for students on refurbished MBPs

Screenshot_20231212_124012_Chrome.jpg
B&H with student discount would be nice. I hear they have customer service.
 
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